Chad Stahelski, the creator of the “John Wick” series, is attempting one of Hollywood’s most challenging transitions: transforming a series of blockbuster movies about a deceased hero into a larger franchise. The four “John Wick” films, with Keanu Reeves portraying the stoic ronin gunslinger, have been a resounding success for Lionsgate studio. However, Stahelski’s most recent project, 2023’s “John Wick: Chapter 4,” concluded with the apparent demise of its weary protagonist, a fitting end that resonated with audiences. With the film earning close to half a billion dollars, Lionsgate and Stahelski found themselves facing an enviable dilemma: the “John Wick” franchise appears to have plenty of life left, while John Wick himself seems to be deceased.
Lionsgate has been expanding the John Wick franchise without the involvement of Chad Stahelski and Keanu Reeves. For instance, they tried a Peacock spinoff TV series called The Continental, but it didn’t do well (Stahelski has expressed some thoughts on this). This week marks the debut of the first spinoff movie from the franchise, titled Ballerina, which features Ana de Armas as an assassin in the world of John Wick. Reeves makes a brief appearance.
In addition to that, there’s a recently released documentary offering insights into the filmmaking process (Wick is Pain), an upcoming John Wick prequel anime movie, a spinoff in development featuring Donnie Yen‘s popular character Caine, and potentially or likely a fifth installment of John Wick: Chapter 5 (Stahelski also has thoughts on these projects).
Previously known as a stuntman, Stahelski made his way up the ladder serving as a second unit director on action movies (including “Captain America: Civil War”). Together with his partner David Leitch, they were eventually given the chance to direct 2014’s “John Wick,” where they displayed their captivating style of high-energy “gun fu” combat. Below, Stahelski discusses everything related to “Wick” and standing alone as a fighter against a never-ending line of studio executives.
In the previous year, it was revealed that you hold “franchise management” responsibilities in the realm of John Wick. What specific authority comes with this role?
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It’s been a year since Lionsgate assigned you the role of “franchise overseer” for the John Wick universe. Exactly what level of control does that involve?
I don’t have the answer right now, but I’m working hard to find out. Despite our efforts, it seems we’re still encountering disagreements with each movie we produce, James. This is because studios must navigate a range of abilities and visions among talent, and sometimes people fail to live up to their promises. When they say, “You don’t understand my vision,” it often translates to, “I haven’t figured out what my vision actually is.” If I proposed a script for John Wick 3 that involved numerous dogs biting crotches and the killing of 186 people, would you still offer me $100 million to produce it?
Well, I’d say you have to work on that pitch.
However, if I provide the script to you, I must confess it’s less appealing than your pitch might suggest. Yet in my mind, it holds a logic that seems sound. Initially, it was due to me being too assertive, but at times, this tactic falls flat. Consequently, I’ve become more tolerant and say something like: “Hear me out, this concept may seem questionable, let me work on it for two weeks with my team of experts, then you can see the result.” Later, they often respond with, “Wow, that looks impressive!” Then everyone claims credit. But few consider that only half our ideas will likely succeed.
In the Wick documentary’s Pain, Leitch comments somewhat critically about getting a significant outcome from destroying and rebuilding things. Is it still accurate to say this? What do you think?
It’s completely accurate. My process is extremely disorganized and non-linear. I’m still being instructed on how to write scripts, which I find restrictive. “You can’t do it that way.” Who are they to say? Those who lack skill, perhaps? Today, I had a disagreement with someone over the proper method of constructing a set piece. They said, “That’s not the correct way to assemble a set-piece.
Who is telling you this?
Individuals who’ve followed a specific method for two decades understandably prefer this approach due to the potential confusion and disruption caused by drastic changes, such as demolishing and dismantling. I’m not advocating for chaos in logistics, but this is why we have established patterns, or tropes. Numerous films appear similar because their production process is similar. Instead of mindlessly repeating “Why? Because they do A, B, C,” let’s challenge A, B, and even D. We’ve been doing this in every department for five movies now, and it can become monotonous and frustrate people.
As a die-hard fan, reaching the $1 billion mark for the John Wick saga after the debut of Chapter 4 is nothing short of exhilarating! For me, it’s a testament to the enduring power of Keanu Reeves and the captivating world he’s created. It means that the action-packed storyline and unforgettable characters have resonated with millions around the globe, and I can’t wait to see what unfolds in the future!
Instead of focusing on making money, we aimed to appreciate the role as spectators. Keanu and I created a heartfelt tribute to ’70s action films, martial arts from China (wuxia), Japan’s sword fighting (Chambara), and even incorporated elements from kung fu movies, Samurai films, Lee Marvin, Charles Bronson, Bullet, Clint Eastwood, and Sergio Leone. Essentially, John Wick represents the pinnacle of this genre. Since our previous projects have been financially successful, we’ve had the opportunity to boost the budget for future productions and continue down a similar path, hopefully improving upon it while also enriching the mythology.
As I viewed the documentary, I was captivated by the early script changes for the first film. Originally, they didn’t want John Wick to kill the dog or execute Alfie Allen’s character as the villain, and instead of Wick’s wife dying naturally, they wanted the antagonists to have poisoned her. It always makes me ponder: When a movie becomes successful, do people ever admit, “We were wrong about every single one of those decisions”?
In John Wick 2, there was a conflict regarding a scene where John Wick helps a character named Gianna (played by Claudia Gerini) end her life peacefully. The studio executive objected to the idea of John Wick taking her life, stating “We can’t have John Wick just kill her!” However, it wasn’t about killing her; she had already injured herself, and John Wick provided an alternative that was more honorable. Initially, they wanted two versions. After a test screening, the audience responded more favorably to the version that made it into the final film. The executive acknowledged their mistake by saying, “You were right, I was wrong.
To their credit.
In essence, it’s intriguing, yet few understand it: When comparing two variations in trial showings, it’s crucial to have the exact same viewers witness both versions. This is due to audiences being diverse and unique. However, this scenario rarely occurs. I believe test screenings offer valuable insights, but decisions should not be based solely on them without exposing the audience to every version.
Given you didn’t have a direct role in The Continental TV show, was there anything creatively insightful about broadening this world that you picked up on?
Keanu and I felt that our input wasn’t highly valued; instead, it seemed to be disregarded. The studio attempted to persuade me they had everything under control. Some people believed they possessed the secret formula. However, without Basil Iwanyk’s keen intuition in producing, without Keanu’s unique way of delivering humorous dialogue, and without the visual influences from Wong Kar-wai, anime, Leone, Bernardo Bertucci, or Andrei Tchaikovsky… it just wouldn’t be the same project. They assumed that using anamorphic lenses, creating a strange hotel setting, adding peculiar dialogues, and incorporating crime drama would make everything easy.
If you had a peek into our methodology, you might be surprised to learn that a billion-dollar franchise operates in this manner. I’m currently searching for my next film project in London and we stumbled upon an intriguing location the day before yesterday that significantly influenced the second act. We’ve completely revamped the script as a result. I consistently find top-tier actors and frequently tweak their roles to perfection. This is what makes our films exceptional and authentic – we’re always striving for improvement. However, the studio prefers to have a fixed script due to budget considerations. While we insist, “Simply hand over the funds, and we’ll meet you at the finish line.
Last night saw the first screening of Ballerina, which THR has highly praised. Did it turn out well for you?
The performance appeared to be quite successful, as English audiences typically don’t laugh excessively. Instead, everyone seemed to truly appreciate it… We were incredibly fortunate to have Ana de Armas on board, with her infectious energy and passion. If you’re joining our franchise, there needs to be a genuine affection for it. Occasionally, I’ll contact agencies and inquire, “Who’s a fan of the John Wick series?” One day, Norman Reedus happened to run into Keanu and said, “Hey man, I adore the Wicks,” which led to his casting in Ballerina. Every cast member we’ve selected has been a fan of the previous films. They come to set and there’s a unique atmosphere because they understand the world.
Have you ever found yourself pondering at night if the John Wick universe solely relies on John Wick, given how unsettling that idea is? That’s quite an eerie thought, isn’t it?
Keanu and I recently discussed this topic, and it’s indeed a challenging one. Essentially, the world can maintain stability as long as we avoid excessive aggression and refrain from indiscriminate bombing. Our aim is to narrate tales that seem authentic and fitting. You are likely familiar with Alice in Wonderland; consider the Rabbit or the Cheshire Cat now. Similarly, when a franchise becomes excessively entangled in its own mythology, by the 10th film, it can become confusing. I hope never to find ourselves in such a predicament with the John Wick series. Instead, each installment should be able to tell its own story effectively and independently.
Was Keanu always supposed to appear in Ballerina?
Initially, that addition wasn’t part of the initial plan. Frankly, I had some reservations about it. However, upon reflection, I could see the advantage and we wanted to support director Len Wiseman. Following the success of John Wick 4, he couldn’t return to the low-budget model of the first John Wick. To remain competitive, he needed a fair chance. The most straightforward method for us, from the studio perspective, was to incorporate John Wick into Ballerina within a unique timeline.
Does he appear in Caine?
The Donny Yen spinoff doesn’t feature the John Wick character; instead, it focuses on Donny Yen and pays homage to martial arts films. If you think of John Wick 1 as being inspired by Charles Bronson and Lee Marvin, consider this more akin to Chow Yun-fat, John Woo, and Wong Kar-wai. I believe it’s simpler for audiences to grasp because it falls within the subcategory of genres we admire.
The documentary highlights the extensive training Keanu Reeves undergoes for each film, and it appears that his punishment intensifies with each project. Given that he’s now 60 years old, there must be some boundary to how much stress you can subject him to, correct? After all, there’s only so much a person can endure before they reach their breaking point.
If you’re an elite sprinter in your twenties and find yourself not running as fast at age 30, you might switch to marathon running instead since marathon runners often peak in their mid-to-late thirties. After all, every sport has its challenges – for the first ‘John Wick’, Keanu Reeves had a serious knee injury that prevented him from punching and kicking effectively. As a result, they introduced Jiu-jitsu and gun-fu to the film instead of lowering the bar, they simply moved it to something new and exciting.
Has the decision about John Wick 5 staying true to the ending of John Wick 4’s story with John dying remained unchanged since our last conversation last year? I remember you were still trying to figure out a possible twist or loophole around it at that time.
The situation is puzzling, I must admit. Mike Finch, the writer of 4 and currently working on 5, and I have an intriguing story idea that I find appealing. When we reach the 50-page mark and if we’re both happy with it, we plan to collaborate with Keanu and further develop this concept. To put it simply, there’s a lot of interest in this project. The question is whether we can make it truly compelling. We are actively working on it, but the doubt lingers: will it meet our expectations?
Is a prequel possible? Because the anime movie is a prequel, I assume this wouldn’t be.
Keanu Reeves and I aren’t drawn to revisiting the past. With anime, there’s no need for character de-aging, no requirement to clarify strange elements, and no compulsion to create a backstory. Instead, you embrace anime as it is, without needing explanations. Anime simply captures your attention instantly.
You’re familiar with the fact that John Wick 4 concluded exceptionally well, leaving an almost palpable sense that no successful franchise should ever truly come to an end – as if popularity grants immortality of sorts.
We’ve agreed on this matter many times, and it aligns with your viewpoint. Both me and Keanu felt the same way about it. We thought we were done after making 3, but here we are with 4. To be honest, I dislike cheesy or happy endings. I find them unsatisfying. Over time, everything becomes a sad reality. If you kill 86 people, there’s no escaping the consequences. When we started on 4, our intention was to create an ending that had significant impact and repercussions. We planned for it to be a cliffhanger. However, during filming in Japan, we realized that our initial ending didn’t quite hit the mark. It wasn’t as effective as we wanted it to be. So, we decided that we needed to wrap up the story properly. I was genuinely pleased with how 4 ended. It felt like Keanu and I were saying goodbye, acknowledging the great journey we’ve shared, but also recognizing that it was time for us to move on and not overstay our welcome.
If we embark on the journey of creating John Wick 5, brainstorm ideas, and realize it doesn’t fit our vision, we may uncover around ten alternative concepts that can be applied elsewhere. It’s an engaging creative process. It’s like collaborating with cherished colleagues in a brainstorming session. There’s nothing but advantages to that.
So it’s not a lock that John Wick 5 will exist?
The studio seems keen on making it happen eventually, and with our combined efforts, I’m confident that will occur. Notably, they’ve encouraged us, we have some solid concepts, and we’re ready to give it our best shot.
What are the biggest mistakes action movies seem to be making when you see other films?
Ensure you output this: “I want to emphasize that my perspective is just one among many, and it doesn’t hold more value than anyone else’s. What I might find ineffective could work wonders for others. It’s often the way something is presented that makes a difference. Take Die Hard, for instance. There isn’t much action, it essentially unfolds on three floors of a building, but the character of John McClane is captivating. When he dashes through shattered glass barefoot, it’s electrifying—that’s what makes it work. I could replicate the same moves you see in John Wick, but if you don’t connect with Keanu Reeves as John Wick, we wouldn’t be having this conversation right now. There are athletes more skilled than Jackie Chan—but what sets them apart is their ability to captivate the audience.
But we love Jackie Chan.
In a more eloquent manner, one could say:
“For a long time, it was believed that ‘the story is what matters most, not the action.’ But this isn’t accurate. Similarly, it was argued that ‘it’s not the stories, but the action that counts.’ However, neither of these perspectives is valid. The true essence lies in harmoniously blending both the narrative and the action.
A common issue with action movies is that viewers perceive them as two distinct films: one with a story and another with action scenes. However, these elements should complement each other seamlessly. Unfortunately, when different crews handle the action sequences, as seen in some superhero productions, the visuals, color grading, and editing can appear inconsistent. As a result, the film never feels cohesive. If you’re not prepared to shoot your own action scenes, then perhaps it would be best not to make an action movie. This rule applies regardless of whether it’s Steven Spielberg, Christopher Nolan, Guy Ritchie, or the Wachowskis at the helm – they all take charge of their action sequences.
In your statement, you pointed out that if another actor played Wick, it wouldn’t be suitable. Earlier in the documentary, you suggested Jason Statham to adopt the style of Wick for his film Safe. Have there been any instances where Jason expressed regret or acknowledged that he should have taken on that role?
Initially, the idea seemed appealing to us and we considered pursuing it since Jason found it exciting. However, I ultimately decided against it as it didn’t align with Jason’s character. Incorporating gun-fu would have necessitated him killing numerous individuals for even a simple sequence, which was problematic given that our story only features a few major antagonists and most of the characters are merely guards or extras. We wanted to ensure that Jason’s character wasn’t portrayed as a mass murderer. The reference to Star Trek’s Red Shirts is meant to illustrate this point.
You talk about studio notes you didn’t do. Was there any note that you did that you regret?
Absolutely. In a movie like “John Wick,” I had a brief but intense altercation that lasted barely three minutes. It seems many studios and critics are preoccupied with running times, but what truly matters is whether the film holds your interest. I’ve endured 90-minute movies that felt endless, while watching classics like “Lawrence of Arabia” or “Seven Samurai” that seemed to fly by despite their four-hour length. No one complained about the four-hour cut of “Return of the King,” so let’s drop this discussion.
They’ll argue, “There’s evidence that people lose interest in things longer than two hours and 20 minutes.” People rarely leave a movie saying, “This movie was fantastic, but it could have been an excellent 2 hours and 36 minutes.” Thus, when they suggested, “You need to trim three minutes,” I reacted as if to say, “But the audience rated it 90 in the test!
As a filmmaker who’s churned out four blockbusters that earned over a billion each, I can confidently say, “Money talks, but only when the movie is good. If it’s not, I’m open to feedback. But if it’s loved by the audience, then who needs critics?
At times, I can’t help but wonder if there’s a magic number of blockbuster hits that I have to produce consecutively, with each one outperforming its predecessor, before you truly believe in my talent as a filmmaker?
I understand it’s not four. That much is clear to me. I’m not considering it as the next option. However, if we make it past five, then we can revisit this discussion.
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2025-06-05 17:26