John Legend on Bringing ‘Rhythm + Flow’ to Netflix and the Controversy Over This Season’s Winner

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As a seasoned industry veteran with a rich background in music and entertainment, I can’t help but appreciate the insights shared by John Legend and Derek “DJ” Jackson in this captivating interview. Their experiences, from growing up in small towns to achieving remarkable success, resonate deeply with me.

John Legend has become such a symbol for R&B that it’s easy to forget that the EGOT got his start aligning with hip-hop artists. He emerged on the scene being a big part of Kanye West’s GOOD Music label. So to see The Voice judge producing Netflix hip-hop competition show Rhythm + Flow should come as no surprise. With the second season now wrapped, Legend and his Get Lifted Film Co. partner Mike Jackson spoke with The Hollywood Reporter about why they started the show, how it got renewed after its COVID cancellation, new and past judges, the controversy surrounding the season two winner and their new podcast Why Not Me? With Mike Jackson.

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How did you both get involved with Rhythm + Flow and how did you make it to Netflix?

JOHN LEGEND We got involved right from the start. Our aim was to showcase this concept to broadcasters, hoping to share it with a wider audience since we strongly felt that it offered an exceptional platform for promoting rising hip hop artists and giving hip hop the recognition it deserves through its own reality competition series. Initially, we managed to sell it to a network, but soon realized it wasn’t the right fit. In my opinion, it required a premium environment where we could portray the genuine, uncensored aspects of people’s lives, their raw lyrics, and capture the authentic energy and rebellious spirit that hip hop embodies worldwide. I believe it wouldn’t have thrived on regular TV. Therefore, I’m overjoyed that it found a home on Netflix, and I’m thrilled that it’s back!

MIKE JACKSON When it comes to broadcasting, you must cater to advertisers, which limits your budget. On the other hand, with Netflix, you’re part of a global platform, allowing your show to be viewed globally. To truly represent the culture, one must immerse themselves in it. I believe the best way to achieve this is by having the creative freedom to express yourself freely.

In essence, if you tune into the series, it feels incredibly authentic, and it’s challenging to emulate that level of realism in any other media format. Simply put, Netflix provides a unique platform where we can achieve this in a way that’s hard to replicate elsewhere.

Despite the fact that some might overlook your connection to the hip-hop scene, particularly with Kanye West, Common, and your past contributions with catchy hooks, one might wonder why you’d opt for a hip-hop performance instead of an R&B show, given that many now view you as the embodiment and savior of R&B music.

In my opinion, Shows like mine offer ample platforms for R&B music to thrive. For instance, on The Voice, a plethora of gifted R&B artists emerge every season. Just recently, an R&B artist named Asher HaVon from Alabama won the competition. I believe there’s plenty of room for R&B singers to excel in other competitive shows. Essentially, these programs revolve around performing cover songs. However, what sets this apart is that it’s not just about singing covers; it’s about sharing your own narrative. I sensed a gap in the market, an audience interest, for such a show. I think creating an R&B-themed program could have been challenging to avoid replicating other singing competition formats.

At what point did you decide that establishing your own production company and producing your own shows was something you desired, and can you tell me about the circumstances that led to your collaboration with Mike?

Initially, he served as my music manager while I was fresh out of college pursuing a record deal. With my experience on Lauryn Hill’s “Miseducation [of Lauryn Hill]” album, I was networking with various producers and songwriters to create my first demos. At that time, Mike was well-established in Philadelphia and had a wide circle of connections. He took me under his wing, helping me secure local gigs and make valuable contacts. As our relationship evolved, we became friends, business partners, and associates. The management arrangement didn’t last, but Mike found success in television and film production. He saw potential for us to collaborate, leveraging my rising fame and musical influence to create compelling content beyond the music industry.

JACKSON Allow me to elaborate further on that point. Producer Jason Blum, who is quite successful with Blumhouse, shared something I’ll always remember during my filming days in Vancouver. While I was preparing for a movie, he unexpectedly appeared because he knew my producing partner. His words struck a chord: “The industry is so challenging if you’re not the talent, aren’t born into it, and aren’t bankrolling it – it’s tough to break through.” This resonated with me, as I realized I didn’t fit into any of those categories. So, I began contemplating my creative friends who shared similar feelings, and John was my closest at the time. His perspective and thought process have always guided me.

How did you agree on the name Get Lifted?

That album, Get Lifted, holds immense significance for me as an artist, and it continues to shape my career after 20 years. Our aim is to highlight extraordinary narratives, uplift talented artists, creators, authors, directors, and storytellers. Given this objective, we concluded that Get Lifted was the perfect title for our endeavor.

Discuss the debut of Rhythm + Flow. The show made a strong start with excellent hosts such as T.I., Cardi B, and Chance the Rapper, as well as impressive guest hosts.

As a gaming aficionado, let me share my take on this season’s incredible experience. We had Snoop, we had Nipsey, just to name a few. So many talented artists graced our presence. This season, even Eminem dropped by and we ventured to Detroit. The guests couldn’t contain their excitement because they saw themselves in these rising stars; they witnessed the struggle, the hustle, the search for one’s unique story, and I believe they were all thrilled by our main judges. However, every single guest judge was exceptional as well.

JACKSON People really appreciated season one, and joining it was significant because unlike many other music competition shows, there wasn’t a record deal at the end. Instead, we offered a large sum of money that contestants could use freely for their own purposes. This meant they could produce an independent album or do whatever else they desired with the money. For Chance, this aspect was crucial in his decision to be a judge, and it also attracted other participants, as the show being about the culture implied giving people freedom to live as they wished and pursue what they felt was necessary.

From the very beginning you’ve incorporated women and it’s been very organic.

ARGUMENT The raw talent among these young female emcees is undeniable, why should we overlook them? It seemed absurd not to feature these exceptional young women on our show. They have been outstanding on the show. This isn’t about affirmative action; it’s about recognizing their unique abilities and the vibrancy they bring. And they delivered, season after season. Just take a look at the music industry today. I genuinely believe that a significant part of its vitality and drive is due to female rappers.

You do the first show and it’s very successful. Then COVID hits. How did you bring it back?

Explanation Our production for season two was halted due to COVID-19. The world suddenly changed, and unfortunately, our show was canceled. However, Netflix noticed that the format had success in various other nations. So, where are we currently available, Mike?

JACKSON It’s worth noting that France, Brazil, and Italy were the locations for these successful international shows. It seems Netflix eventually recognized the global nature of their platform, leading to a second season being produced. Not only do I believe they wanted the original show to thrive, but reviving discussions brought us to where we are now.

PARAPHRASE I can envision an incredibly bright future for this concept. It has the versatility to be adapted in numerous countries and languages. I am confident about the success of this format because hip-hop culture holds such significant importance globally, and there are countless regions where a show like this could thrive. I am filled with optimism regarding the prospect of having versions like Rhythm + Flow Nigeria, Rhythm + Flow South Africa, and Rhythm + Flow UK. The culture and talent exist in these places, making it ripe for this format to be universally translated.

Because the world is different from when you premiered it, what was the approach this time around?

To put it simply, since no other show was quite like ours, I sensed an opportunity or void in the market. Furthermore, Netflix’s influence has only grown stronger, making it a powerful platform that can reach audiences all around the world. As Mike mentioned, this global reach allows us to portray our artists’ stories with unfiltered authenticity. Given this, I believe there was still a demand for a show like ours, and no one else seemed to be satisfying that craving.

As a gamer immersed in this captivating digital world, I must say that the level of craftsmanship and attention to detail in season two was truly next-level compared to the first. The artists have clearly upped their game, refining their skills to create a more polished and engaging experience for us players. From the improved cinematography to the intricate character designs, every aspect of the game felt more fluid and immersive. This evolution in quality not only made the game more enjoyable but also helped build a stronger narrative for season two, keeping me hooked from start to finish.

As a devoted fan, witnessing the triumphant first season of our show has ignited an irresistible desire among artists to join us. It bolsters our program’s reputation, lending it a touch of legitimacy. Previously, we were marketing an unproven entity. But now, they’ve glimpsed D Smoke. His Grammy nomination for Best New Artist, earned after his appearance on our show, serves as proof of the potential that lies here. I believe there’s a surge in independent spirit within the music industry today, fueled by platforms like TikTok and the multitude of opportunities it offers artists to be discovered. This relentless drive and entrepreneurial spirit resonates deeply with hip-hop culture.

So what made this combination of Ludacris, Latto and Khaled work this time?

JACKSON It seems you’re seeking a female viewpoint predominantly. Latto symbolizes the current state of the artform. Ludacris, with his decades of experience, offers a voice of wisdom from someone who has been there and done that, providing an informed perspective. Additionally, DJ Khaled is excellent because he’s both a producer and artist. He represents everything happening in the genre today, given his dual roles as an artist and a producer.

In my opinion, All three of them are incredibly intelligent individuals, but they each offer unique viewpoints. I believe it’s crucial for us to include a younger artist in our panel. I think it’s essential not only to have seasoned veterans judging the show, but also someone who is fresh and contemporary. This way, we benefit from a blend of experience and current insights, making for a truly effective panel.

JACKSON Latto has additionally triumphed in a hip-hop contest series, lending additional authenticity to the methodology behind this system and the requirements for success, not only during the competition, but also beyond it.

The ending is a controversial one, with DreTL winning over Jay Taj. What are your thoughts?

My Thought I believe discussions about it are essential. Here’s the point: It’s often subjective, open for debate. This is a fundamental aspect of hip-hop culture, much like barbershop conversations about who your top five artists are or who’s better, Michael Jordan or LeBron James. These debates keep things interesting and engaging.

JACKSON To clarify, it’s the judges who determine the winner, without any input or influence from producers whispering in their ears.

As a passionate gamer, I’m not forcing anyone’s hand. Instead, I encourage people to listen to their instincts, their inner rhythm. It’s no walk in the park to compare artists like this, as they’re not just competing against each other, but carving out unique spaces for themselves in the vast landscape of hip hop. Both are incredibly talented individuals, but preferences vary, and that’s part of the charm. Some might argue about who’s the superior MC, while others might consider success a more important factor. This discussion is a constant in hip hop, a testament to its rich diversity. Some artists may achieve greater commercial success, but they might not necessarily be the most authentic MC. That debate will never end.

JACKSON To those suggesting DreTL’s victory was due to Latto and Luda residing in Atlanta as the show takes place there too, I simply want to point out that this is a mere coincidence.

LEGEND But also ATL is really the center of hip hop right now.

JACKSON In my opinion, DreTL triumphed due to his immense skillset. He was among the top contenders. The victory could have gone to any participant that day. I happened to be present in the room.

LEGEND Yeah, that room lit up. I was there.

JACKSON Perhaps the spectators played a part. Who knows for sure? However, it’s clear that the events of that day significantly contributed to DreTL’s victory. The outcome was ultimately in the hands of the judges. We grasped their decision, but it was a tight call. It was an extraordinary moment.

LEGEND It was not easy. It was not a slam dunk. It was close.

Additionally, there’s been some debate surrounding Detroit Diamonds, particularly the elimination of Dono from the contest. The competition against LG and JAXS didn’t seem exceptionally strong. It’s disheartening to witness such a powerful artist like Dono depart when the battle itself wasn’t up to the usual standard.

AS A FAN: In the first season, an artist named Beanz departed during the battles, and in my view, she was among the best contestants on the show, regardless of gender. Unfortunately, she was defeated by Flawless and eliminated. Sometimes, it’s just the luck of the draw and who you’re matched against that determines the outcome. Changing the rules to favor a more talented individual would be unfair. After all, being great involves showing up and performing at your best.

This show is a competition with its own set of rules, but losing it doesn’t signify an artist’s downfall in their career. Instead, it’s merely one step along their journey. On The Voice, I often remind contestants that this experience provides them significant exposure which they can leverage to achieve success in the industry. Winning the show isn’t the sole path to success; there are numerous ways to turn this opportunity into a stepping stone for a flourishing career.

As a passionate gamer, let me share my thoughts:

Could you tell me the story behind your “Why Not Me? with Mike Jackson” podcast, featuring renowned figures from various industries? What led to its creation and what’s the reason for its focus on these individuals?

JACKSON My initial foray in Austin, Texas was through public speaking and panels, with many people of color asking me about my personal journey. I noticed that I had numerous friends with compelling stories to tell as well. So, I began inviting people to Austin and facilitating these discussions which eventually made it to the main stage at South by Southwest. This has since developed into a podcast, where we’ve been fortunate enough to host guests like Yara Shahidi, Leslie Odom Jr, John Legend, La La Anthony, Gabby Union, Jamele Hill, D Nice, Roy Wood Jr, and Michael Ealy, among others, in our inaugural season. The aim of the podcast is to provide a platform for people of color, allowing them to connect with others who resemble them. Rather than focusing solely on their celebrity status, we delve into their journeys, revealing how individuals like John Legend transitioned from being a child born in Springfield, Ohio, to becoming the renowned figure they are today. We explore the obstacles they encountered along the way, the support or lack thereof from their families and communities, and the process that led them to success. In essence, it’s not just about their fame; we’re interested in their stories of overcoming adversity and achieving greatness.

As a gamer, I’m sharing my perspective: This series is truly enlightening, offering valuable insights into the business world and encouraging dreams to become reality by showcasing those who’ve accomplished their goals. Even though Gabby and I come from humble beginnings in Ohio and Nebraska respectively, we managed to carve out a niche for ourselves in this industry, achieving success in our unique ways. However, every journey is distinct. I believe that by tuning in, listeners can relate to us and envision themselves thriving in this field if they embrace the wisdom we’re sharing.

JACKSON I believe most of them are my friends, and although there might be a chance they’re deceiving me, I don’t think so because they’re my friends. The response from everyone who took part has been very positive, expressing the need for more open discussions like this within our community. This is actually the first time we’ve discussed the podcast in public. Now, we’re simply spreading the word and making people aware that it exists.

LEGEND The episodes aren’t tied to any particular event, making them always accessible. With our growing collection available, I believe they would serve as valuable learning material for anyone interested in our industry and wanting to join our team.

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Both seasons of Rhythm + Flow are now streaming on Netflix.

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2024-12-06 01:56