As a filmmaker with a knack for pushing boundaries and a history of flipping ratings decisions, I found myself in a familiar yet amusing predicament with my latest project, “The 4:30 Movie.” Much like the time I successfully transformed “Jersey Girl” from an R to a PG-13, or the even more effortless flip of “Yoga Hosers,” I hoped for a similar outcome this time around.
The director of “The 4:30 Movie,” Kevin Smith, recognizes that filmmakers today are in a period of introspection, sparked by the profound impact of the global pandemic. Recently, directors like Kenneth Branagh (“Belfast”) and James Gray (“Armageddon Time”) have created films based on their childhood experiences, but it’s Steven Spielberg’s “The Fabelmans” from 2022 that stands out, as it delves into the intersection of his family’s divorce and his growing filmmaking talent. Smith’s upcoming 16th movie, which explores his four deepest affections – his local cinema, an adolescent crush, and two close friends – is drawing comparisons to Spielberg’s latest Oscar-nominated production.
Many thoughtful internet users have commented that [The 4:30 Movie] resembles The Fabelmans, and I found myself smiling at this comparison. Later, The New York Times agreed, stating that it’s similar to The Fabelmans, but if the protagonist ends up creating poor quality films as an adult,” Smith shared with The Hollywood Reporter, chuckling.
Rather than being inspired by films directed by Spielberg, Branagh, Gray, Cuarón’s “Roma” (2018) and Lee Isaac Chung’s “Minari” (2022), Smith’s semi-autobiographical coming-of-age tale was actually sparked by his 2022 acquisition and restoration of Atlantic Cinemas, a movie house in Atlantic Highlands, New Jersey that had been threatened by the pandemic. Renamed SModcastle Cinemas, Smith took advantage of this filming location’s affordability and decided to narrate the story of 16-year-old Brian David (Austin Zajur), who experienced magic, heartbreak, and love in a place much like Atlantic Cinemas. Interestingly, Smith’s parents almost named him Brian David Smith, but they discovered another baby with that name at the hospital’s newborn nursery.
Originally, I had thought about letting my daughter, Harley Quinn Smith, take on the Brian David role since folks often say she’s a spitting image of me. However, Harley, who has acted in my movies like “Yoga Hosers” (2016) and “Jay and Silent Bob Reboot” (2019), turned down the part.
Smith remembers her saying something along the lines of, ‘Aren’t you already inundated with online criticism regarding my family connections? Now you want me to perform for you as well? I don’t think so,’
When it came to finding a new Harley in my favorite movie series, I didn’t need to search much farther than my own circle. You see, my partner of five years, Zajur, had previously collaborated with the Smith family on the 2022 film “Clerks III” and the 2020 reality show on TBS, “Celebrity Show-Off.” It’s like fate was guiding us all along!
In truth, Austin Zajur embodied Kevin Smith far better than Kevin Smith himself. He was an ideal, spot-on pick,” Smith notes.
For many years, Smith has been striving to produce a sequel to his critically acclaimed second film, “Mallrats” (1995), which featured Jason Lee, Shannen Doherty, and Jeremy London. However, with Doherty’s passing in July following her long battle against cancer, he temporarily abandoned the project as she had plans to reprise her role as one of the main characters.
Yet, it has become clear to him that the film “Twilight of the Mallrats” (previously known as “Mallrats 2“) should serve as a tribute to Doherty. Rather than reworking the script to omit her character, Rene Mosier, he now envisions a substitute casting idea featuring an actor who was not just one of Doherty’s closest friends but also tried out for another role in “Mallrats” almost three decades back.
Smith mentions that Shannen’s dearest friend is Sarah Michelle Gellar, and they worked together on “Masters of the Universe: Revelation.” Given Sarah’s friendship with Shannen and her past audition for “Mallrats” 30 years ago, Smith proposes asking Sarah to take on Shannen’s role if there’s a chance to produce “Twilight of the Mallrats.” This act would hold personal significance for Sarah due to her bond with Shannen. Sarah could embody Shannen’s charm during the project, making it a fitting substitute should Shannen not be available.
Smith also revealed his and Doherty’s last text conversation, which they exchanged following their recording of the Let’s Be Clear podcast in Malibu last December. This final exchange highlights how eager she was to persuade Universal, the rights-holder for Mallrats, to pave the way for a long-anticipated sequel.
In a text message exchange, she suggested, “How about you, Jason [Lee] and I meet up at Universal?” To which I replied, “Sure thing!” She then said, “Let’s make it happen. I might as well play the ‘cancer card.'” She followed this with an emotional laughing-crying emoji. Smith shared this emotional dialogue from his iPhone Messages app.
Here’s my take on paraphrasing the given statement in a more conversational and first-person style:
In a recent chat with THR, Smith additionally talks about The 4:30 Movie’s unsuccessful attempt at getting a PG-13 rating and goes on to explain why Universal hasn’t initiated a Mallrats sequel yet. (Paraphrased)
“Every conversation we have seems to bring up the topic of your nearly being named Brian David. When I saw Austin Zajur’s character’s name, it reminded me of Leonardo DiCaprio so much that I pointed at the screen.
(Smith laughs and points at the screen.)
So, for the uninitiated, Austin is clearly playing an alternative universe version of you, right?
Absolutely. Initially, I had planned for my daughter Harley Quinn Smith to portray a younger version of Brian David in the project. People often say that she’s a lot like me without a beard or male genitalia. So, I thought it would be fitting for her to play my 16-year-old, bearded and yes, genitalia-less counterpart. However, she declined the offer, saying she didn’t need more nepotism-related drama in her life. She was like, “You think I don’t have enough online scrutiny already? Now you want me to play you? Forget it.” In the end, I found someone else who could do an equally good or even better job. Austin, whom my daughter has been dating for five years, was familiar to me because of this connection. He worked with us on “Clerks III” and we also collaborated on a TBS show during the pandemic called “Celebrity Show-Off,” where we created a sitcom titled “Son-in-Lockdown” and Austin played an annoying version of himself in it.
After getting to know him better over time, I felt confident that he could excel in this role, not just comedically but also emotionally. He’s got a deep soul, and I think he proved it more than Kevin Smith himself did. He took me on an unexpected journey with his performance. He gave me something extraordinary that I hadn’t even asked for, but I was deeply moved by it. In the final scene where Brian David confessed his love for Melody Barnegat, he almost shed tears and I was blown away. I never would have imagined asking for that kind of emotional depth, but that’s exactly what Kevin Smith is known for. He managed to convey everything in that moment without saying a word. It really made the scene feel authentic, and it was the perfect ending. I can’t thank him enough for taking on this role. He was an exceptional choice.
It’s likely causing some discomfort in my daughter’s romantic relationships. (Smiles.) I can’t help but wonder if the fact that he once portrayed a younger version of her grandfather might make things awkward for her romantic partners. This could potentially create complexities that she may need to address in therapy, but it certainly adds an interesting layer to my film.
How did Harley respond when she learned that her loved one was chosen to portray an alternate version of her father’s character?
She made a decisive move, without a doubt. To start with, I believe she felt freed from my presence. I simply stated, “You’re not going to be around anymore,” and her response was something like, “Thank heavens.” She rarely disappoints me, but she seemed ready to do so. However, when I picked her favorite actor as the winner, she became a fan. Of course, she adores me, but it seems that her affection for the movie might be even stronger because her beloved character is the lead. She exclaimed, “Oh my God, there he is, my Puff,” which is what she calls him. Thus, she was delighted, and so far, there hasn’t been any major backlash or years-long silence from her, like a typical father-daughter spat.
Similar to Cinema Paradiso and Clerks III, The Fabelmans comparison has been made a lot thus far.
Many thoughtful internet users have compared it to “The Fabelmans“, which I found heartwarming. Then, “The New York Times” said something along the lines of, “Yes, if the child in the story went on to create poor films as an adult.” (Chuckles).
In recent times, many directors have been creating semi-autobiographical pieces. So, did The Fabelmans serve as the catalyst for your own autobiographical filmmaking journey?
Indeed, if I must acknowledge any filmmaker, it’s Paul Thomas Anderson. A few years back, I watched Licorice Pizza, and I thought, “I get it, mate. That’s your origin story. What a clever concept.” So, inspired by that idea, I adapted it for our own movie, which eventually materialized when we purchased the movie theater in Atlantic Highlands, New Jersey. This location served as the inspiration for the film, as I realized, “Well, if we own a movie theater, we have a perfect spot to shoot a movie.” Thus, the idea originated from acquiring my childhood theater, or perhaps it was the other way around – a classic chicken-and-egg scenario. The primary reason for buying the theater was the potential to produce a film there as well. In essence, our movie was born out of a desire to keep the theater alive following the Covid shutdown. It can be said that the movie is a byproduct of our efforts to preserve the theater.
Since Rosario Dawson, who played in Clerks II and The 4:30 Movie, is now starring as Ahsoka, I was curious if you might steer clear of another scenario similar to Clerks II, where a character delves into Star Wars. It was quite amusing when Adam Pally’s character criticized Star Wars TV shows, particularly during the season one finale of The Mandalorian, and it made me chuckle. After reading that scene in the script, did Rosario cause any trouble for you about this?
(Laughs.) To clarify, in a script from 1986, Pally’s character’s usher expressed relief that there would never be another Star Wars movie. However, Adam (as you can imagine) improvised and added lines like “Who wants to watch a show about Boba Fett?” and so on. This was perfect for me because it played right into my humor. Interestingly, Rosario wasn’t privy to these script changes, and she hasn’t reached out about them yet. (Laughs.)
The irony lies in the fact that you, in a way, contributed to an intriguing plot point in the top-notch Star Wars TV series, Andor. Specifically, Tony Gilroy drew inspiration from your scene involving the Death Star in Clerks for the characters who are constructing parts of the Death Star on Andor.
He is very sweet for ever saying something like that publicly, but let’s be honest, Tony Gilroy needs no help, man. He’s a master screenwriter and filmmaker, and when he shouted me out as Andor was running, it was honestly kind of dope. I’ve spent my whole career shouting out Star Wars and then Star Wars shouted back. That’s where I am now at this stage in life. 30 years into my career, I’ve spent a long time calling out and shouting out other movies in my movies, and now the movies are starting to call back. If you live long enough, that’s a possibility. Nobody told me that in the beginning of my career, but I’m so happy to discover that it’s such a sweet byproduct, man.
Just like Robert Rodriguez and the movie Machete from 2010, Eli Roth took a fictional trailer he made for Robert and Quentin Tarantino’s Grindhouse and turned it into a full-length film called Thanksgiving. Since The 4:30 Movie also has fake trailers, are you intrigued by the idea of creating a feature film based on Sister Sugar Walls someday?
Let me tell you, if anybody wants to put any money into Sister Sugar Walls, I’d be more than happy to make that picture. Could you imagine? “From the maker of Dogma and Red State, a new look at religion — Sister Sugar Walls.” Of all our little trailers, that would be the one that I would definitely love to take a shot at if anybody wanted to finance it. But unlike Robert with Machete and Eli with Thanksgiving, I can’t imagine there’s going to be much of a high demand for Sister Sugar Walls.
Having quoted your “framing business” line from Mallrats in my senior yearbook ….
What continues to bring joy is that particular piece; it’s among my most cherished works, though some might call it overly biased or self-referential. Yet, no one has ever approached me to remark on that standout line, which makes me extremely pleased.
So, Shannen Doherty’s recent passing left me deeply saddened. While her departure impacts much more than just one film, I found myself contemplating “Twilight of the Mallrats,” a project she had expressed interest in. Has her loss increased your determination to bring this movie to life as a tribute to her?
Following Shannen’s passing, I initially felt like, “That’s it,” as her character, Rene, was a significant part of the film. Alongside Brodie (played by Jason Lee), Rene is one of the main characters in the movie. After Shannen’s death, I assumed that the movie would never come to fruition and perhaps for the best. However, surprisingly, over the past month, there have been strange flickers of discussion and optimism. While I’m not guaranteeing anything, it now seems as though there could be a way forward, so to speak.
If Universal gives the green light, the question then arises: What would be the next move? Interestingly, my close friend, Sarah Michelle Gellar, worked alongside me on “Masters of the Universe: Revelation”. It’s ironic that when Sarah and I first met in person, I brought up her friendship with Shannen Doherty because they were very close. When I asked her about their meeting, she replied that since Shannen was on “Charmed” and she was on “Buffy”, they had crossed paths in the television world. However, Sarah reminded me that we had already met before. She revealed this during the auditions for “Mallrats”. I couldn’t believe it when she said she had auditioned for “Mallrats”! Thirty years ago next year, and she was up for the role of Trish. I was amazed! If there’s a chance we make “Twilight of the Mallrats”, I would ask Sarah to step in for Shannen if she’s unable to be there. This would likely hold some personal significance for her due to her friendship with Shannen, and it would also be beneficial for our movie as Sarah could bring Shannen’s charm to the role. It might not be the same as having Shannen there, but it could certainly be a fitting tribute.
This has to happen now.
I certainly hope that turns out to be true. If it does, it would be absolutely marvelous and mind-blowing. Frankly, nothing could surpass this moment if Shannen were still among us, participating as we had initially planned. The last time we communicated was during her “Let’s Be Clear” podcast. I visited her home in Malibu for a recording session back in December, and after the session ended, she sent me a text. Let me quickly find that message because it perfectly encapsulates Shannen’s spirit. (Smith pulls out his iPhone)
We were talking about going into Universal and sitting down with them to talk about making a Mallrats sequel. And she texted, “We will call out Universal and tell people to message them and Jason Blum,” because I was like, “Maybe Blumhouse will do it.” So I said, “Totally.” And she texted, “So let’s hope it works.” And I said, “Amen, little sister.” And then she said, “Why don’t you and Jason [Lee] and me go meet at Universal?” And I said, “We totally can.” And she said, “Let’s do it. I’ll pull the cancer card.” And then she put one of those crying-laughing emojis. So it’d be nice. Of course, I’d like to make the movie for me and many other reasons, but now there’s a special impetus. And we know who that movie is going to be dedicated to; that’s for damn sure.
Hey there! Just wanted to say thanks for the info you shared. It’s really helpful! Now, I can’t help but wonder if maybe Universal has been a bit too tough in negotiations back in the day.
Every time I’ve approached Universal about creating a new “Mallrats” film, I find myself speaking with different executives due to their frequent changes. When I suggest the idea, they often express enthusiasm, saying things like, “I love ‘Mallrats!’ We actually own it?” To which I respond, “Yes, and here are two concepts for a sequel.” However, when I share my ideas, their reactions are always the same – an expression of confusion, as if to say, “This movie’s not fast or furious.” And so the project remains unrealized.
Did you have a disagreement with the MPA about the R-rating of The 4:30 Movie, and you preferred it to be rated PG-13? Are you now accepting their final decision?
On that day, I accepted the situation with confidence as I’ve often successfully changed ratings throughout my career. For instance, movies like “Clerks”, “Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back”, and even “Jersey Girl” were initially given stricter ratings, but we managed to change them to R without any cuts. Remarkably, “Yoga Hosers” was originally rated R, but after I declared my intention to appeal, they surprisingly changed it directly to a PG-13 rating, presumably to avoid another lengthy process.
In my expectation, the movie would follow the same approach regarding ratings as previous ones. Typically, the reasoning is that theater owners, being closest to the audience, are in the best position to determine what might lead to refund requests. However, this time, the target wasn’t the Motion Picture Association (MPA); instead, it was members of NATO – National Association of Theater Owners. Since I am now a part of NATO and have worked at a movie theater, I felt compelled to express my opinion. I’ve sold tickets, sat at the counter, and I know what makes people leave a movie. Frankly, there’s nothing in this film that warrants an R-rating. I intentionally aimed for a PG-13 rating, as I am proficient in creating R-rated movies if I so desired. If they rate it R, it implies that the movie is equivalent to something like “The Human Centipede,” which was also rated R. I made my point. Yet, the MPA team members were understanding and, interestingly, younger than me this time around. Back in the day, they were more experienced, while I was the novice. Now roles have reversed, and I am the seasoned one, while they are the up-and-coming professionals.
They expressed concern about the frequent discussions on masturbation in the movie, stating that it would be awkward for a 16-year-old to listen to such conversations. When I suggested that their child likely knows what masturbation is, they agreed but couldn’t pinpoint which specific conversation was causing discomfort. After listing six instances, I acknowledged that the film might have explicit content and that although I had removed most of the profanity, there were numerous references to masturbation. Despite this, we reached a close decision with only one vote difference, and I conceded their point of view.
Well, nonetheless, I thought it was an incredibly sweet movie.
Was it weird to sit there and hear the character’s full name of Brian David the whole movie?
Yeah, I kept perking up and looking over my shoulder.
In the past, we kept two dogs named Mulder and Scully. Whenever we watched “The X-Files,” our dog Mulder would poke his head up at the TV whenever Scully said “Mulder.” I’m sure it seemed like you were in the movie every time that happened. (Paraphrased for clarity and natural flow)
Exactly.
***
The 4:30 Movie is now available on digital; the 4K/Blu-ray arrives on Nov. 5.
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2024-10-02 23:58