As a storyteller who has been fortunate enough to navigate through the intricate world of both literature and television, I find myself deeply drawn to narratives that resonate with the complexities of human relationships and the passage of time. F. Scott Fitzgerald’s Tender Is the Night and the captivating true story of The White Darkness are perfect examples of these rich, layered tales.
[This story contains spoilers from the season two finale of Pachinko, “Chapter Sixteen.”]
Soo Hugh is well-aware of the hurdles involved in creating content for television. Having honed her skills as a writer and producer on shows like CBS’s sci-fi mystery “Under the Dome”, ABC’s sci-fi drama “The Whispers”, and the first season of AMC’s horror anthology “The Terror”, the Korean American showrunner has spent approximately six years transforming Min Jin Lee’s sprawling historical novel “Pachinko” into an awe-inspiring Apple TV+ series. This series concluded its second season on October 11, as seen in a comprehensive review of the finale.
One of television’s most ambitious series, “Pachinko,” delves into the lasting effects of Japan’s occupation on a Korean family spanning four generations. Initially, the characters struggled for their existence and cultural preservation. However, as we move forward into season two, the Baek family, having survived World War II, now grapple with their dreams for a brighter tomorrow. Meanwhile, central character Sunja (portrayed by Minha Kim in an earlier timeframe) grapples with a heart-wrenching secret that threatens to shatter her family’s unity.
In an extensive interview with The Hollywood Reporter, Hugh candidly discusses the process behind creating the second season of Pachinko, such as the choice to revamp the iconic opening credits, the hurdles faced in conveying a universal tale through subtitles, and his true feelings about the first season being overlooked at the Emmys.
In discussing the current status of the business, Hugh shares his ideas about two upcoming ventures as well: a movie based on F. Scott Fitzgerald’s final finished novel and a long-awaited mini-series featuring Tom Hiddleston in the leading role.
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Instead of focusing on a single character’s journey, you opted to develop Pachinko as a multi-generational narrative. This approach enabled the various timelines in the series to consistently influence and converse with each other. However, the opening credits sequence is the only instance where characters from different eras appear together. Why was it necessary to revise this sequence for season two?
Remarkably, the title sequence for this season almost didn’t materialize. The approach from season one wouldn’t have been suitable for season two, as many of the original cast members are no longer on the show. Additionally, scheduling a shoot for the title sequence proved challenging during season two. At one point, we were considering using the Pachinko card instead, which felt odd for this particular production. However, one of our producers came up with an ingenious solution. It was quite unconventional, reminding me of my film school days.
During filming, our smaller team seized control of the Pachinko parlor while the main unit was firing, which is why the actors are seen wearing costumes from specific scenes. For instance, Minha [Kim] is dressed in her morning attire since we literally extracted her from the scene where she’s attending a funeral and asked her to dance instead. This whole process was fast-paced and chaotic, but it resulted in a sense of improvisation among the cast. The big conga line at the end was filmed on a Saturday – a day off for everyone involved, yet they were kind enough to return and participate in it.
Why did you decide to use “Let’s Live for Today” by The Grass Roots for this title sequence?
The initial series centers around the theme, “Seize the day; this is our moment.” However, this time around, the emotions behind the risks seemed much stronger and profound. If you pay close attention to the song’s lyrics, it can be seen as a love ballad, whether one interprets that love story as between a parent and child or two lovers. This interpretation resonates more with the current season.
In contrast to the initial season, the second one appears broader in terms of narrative and setting – it involves multiple storylines and characters, and filming took place on two continents with a predominantly non-English speaking cast. Have there been any valuable lessons from producing the first season that were applicable during this round?
Man, I’ve got to say, the first season was a real learning journey for us. The learning curve was just staggering, and we had so much more time back then too. We took nearly three years to write and shoot season one. This time around, Apple wanted things moved along quicker, which is quite challenging for this intricate show. But the biggest lesson I’ve taken away, not just about this series but life in general – it all gets accomplished somehow. You get anxious, you worry, and you second-guess every decision, but when you work with such a talented and intelligent team, you face these challenges, and they seem insurmountable at first. But bit by bit, we manage to pull it off. It’s truly amazing how things come together.
In addition to the usual challenges of leading a team, you faced the distinct task of guiding individuals who don’t necessarily share a common language. To ensure clear communication among your cast and crew, you relied on interpreters. Was it any less difficult in season two?
In the first season, my main apprehension revolved around the interpreters, thinking they might struggle to capture my ideas. However, I was delightfully proven wrong as the process turned out smoother than expected in the first season, although there were still imperfections. I came to recognize that cinema possesses a universal language, which people intuitively comprehend. This realization alleviated my worries for the second season, allowing me to focus on other aspects without this concern looming over us. The actors entering the second season exuded greater confidence and a deeper understanding of their characters. They truly embody these roles, creating a sort of shorthand that streamlined the process. For the first season, we likely spent countless hours in meetings with each actor discussing the characters’ nuances. In contrast, this season, I could simply hand over scenes and say “Read this,” and the communication flowed effortlessly.
In Pachinko, many characters fluently speak more than one language, frequently engaging in conversations with both each other and the external world. As we delve into this new season, how did you approach the balance of Korean, Japanese, and English, as well as the seamless transitions between these languages that the characters exhibit?
I love that question. In season two, it’s so much more apparent because of [Sunja’s children] Mozasu and Noa — that [next] generation really sits at that cusp. And especially when you think about Mozasu, he was born in Japan — he and Noa both were. But for Mozasu, he’s like, “I don’t know Korea,” and yet he hears Korean spoken in the house. So if you look at Mozasu’s [subtitles], there’s a lot of blue-yellow, blue-yellow, blue-yellow, and it’s so natural for him. He doesn’t even think about when he’s switching, and that was the most important thing. We wanted to make sure you never see the actors in their performance thinking about it. It should just be as natural as possible, which is really hard when you think that Eunseong [Kwon, who plays the youngest Mozasu] is 9 years old and didn’t speak Japanese [prior to the show].
Even though there’s a growing appetite for varied narratives across multiple languages, internationally-produced stories, complete with subtitles, haven’t yet gained the same level of acceptance as those in English. I can’t help but think that the Emmy snub of Pachinko in 2022, despite its critical acclaim, underlines this point. What were your thoughts on how the first season was received in the Western world? And how do you envision Pachinko serving to dismantle this notion that subtitles hinder the telling and appreciation of a universally relatable story?
Your question is remarkably insightful, and it seems quite complex to analyze. The Emmys didn’t meet expectations, yet I wasn’t upset. This was due to the fact that our show wasn’t widely recognized by the public. Critics were familiar with our series, and I am deeply appreciative of their recognition. It’s incredibly rewarding to know that intelligent viewers who consume a lot of TV have taken a liking to our show. However, beyond critical acclaim, our show didn’t attract as many viewers as we had hoped. I believe we were overly optimistic in thinking we could overcome the hurdle of subtitles, don’t you?
When considering how people typically watch TV, it’s often simultaneous with activities like cooking, playing video games, or browsing the internet. This can prove challenging when dealing with subtitles. It’s amusing to reflect on my past stance against dubbing – I used to think it was a sin and that those who watched shows in this manner were less than ideal viewers. However, I have since had a change of heart. While I still believe the original language is the best way for audiences to experience content, if watching a show with English dubbing is what draws them in, then so be it. We may not have fully prepared our audience for this leap, which is why I admire shows like Shōgun so much – they serve as bridges between cultures and languages. Shows such as Pachinko are starting to build this bridge, but it’s still only partially constructed.
Six years have passed since your initial endeavor to bring Pachinko to life in the entertainment industry. Regrettably, pledges for a more diverse Hollywood, made during the peak of a global pandemic, seem to be diminishing due to financial constraints and labor conflicts. So, what is the current state of diversity and inclusion?
It seems we’re in for some challenging periods ahead when it comes to representation, and I fear this will continue for several years. The disheartening aspect is that you can become optimistic with shows like “Beef” or “Pachinko“, thinking “At last, we’ve surpassed the barrier, shattered the glass ceiling,” only to find out that during tough times, that glass wall just goes back up. I don’t believe there are quick fixes. People need to realize that we can’t get comfortable; we must continue to support such shows. We should make an effort to watch shows like “Beef“, “Shōgun” – we simply have to do it, because in the end, our attendance determines whether these shows will thrive or not.
Was a significant factor in your decision to establish your own production company, Moonslinger, that you also worked on the series Pachinko?
I found myself pondering over the abundance of tales yet untold, stories that demanded to be shared. Yet, there’s a question that lingers: how can we present them in a way that not only resonates with readers but also appeals to the market? It’s often a delicate balance between artistic expression and commercial success. One might approach it with innocence or simply embrace the challenge, saying, “Let’s give it our best shot – let’s do it brilliantly.
Regarding your observation, it appears that due to the cautious nature of today’s market and the industry’s present condition, Hollywood executives tend to invest in established Intellectual Properties (IP) rather than developing new concepts. Many prominent projects these days are either expansions of successful franchises or adaptations from books. I’m curious about your thoughts on the dominance of IP in the business currently. Has this shift affected how you approach television production?
I’m a fan of intellectual property (IP). Since I exclusively adapt existing works, I don’t view IP as compromising my integrity – I’ll put it that way. What really matters, though, is the need for stories to move at a faster pace in the coming years. The leisurely paced storytelling seems to be a thing of the past, at least for now. In the old days, a series could take up to four episodes to captivate an audience. For me, it took four episodes of “The Wire” to become hooked. Those days are gone. If your show doesn’t win the hearts of viewers in the first episode, its chances of success are slim. We can resent this and feel frustrated, but I always say, “Understand the rules before you know how to break them.” This was a lesson I learned during my art classes. So if this is the playground we’re working with, let’s find ways to bend or break the rules within that playground, because it can be done.
As a gamer embarking on a new narrative journey, I’ve been given the exciting opportunity to pen and direct the big-screen adaptation of F. Scott Fitzgerald’s timeless novel “Tender Is the Night” for Searchlight Pictures. It’s been over two and a half years since Apple announced that Tom Hiddleston would lead in the limited series “The White Darkness,” a project I was set to write and produce. So, where do things stand with these captivating tales, and what drew me to them for my next creative endeavors?
Currently, I’m immersed in reinterpreting the novel “Tender is the Night.” It’s a story that I fell for long ago and continues to captivate me. The tale of these three characters devouring each other resonates deeply with me, along with its classic love story, love triangle dynamic.
We’re diligently working on the adaptation of “The White Darkness“, striving to bring it to life. The tale is truly captivating, inspired by the real-life adventures of explorer Henry Worsley. Currently, Kerry Ehrin from “The Morning Show” is penning the script, and she’s placing a significant emphasis on exploring the complexities of his marriage. This man embarked on a solo trek across Antarctica, which raises questions about the impact of such an obsession on a marriage, family, and personal motivations. It’s shaping up to be a compelling exploration indeed!
In the near future, I’m eager to share a new project with you all, one that has me truly thrilled. This venture is quite distinct from “Pachinko”, yet I believe it continues to uphold the standard of excellent TV programming.
Where are you right now in terms of renewal talks with Apple for Pachinko?
This situation is largely beyond our control, and even Apple seems hesitant until they assess the success of the show. We’re genuinely striving for a third season, and ultimately, its success depends heavily on audience engagement.
Hey there! I’ve been asked about my plans for Pachinko. Initially, I had envisioned creating four seasons, but lately, I’ve found myself dreaming up new ideas that could potentially take the storyline beyond those initial four. So, it seems like the world of Pachinko might just keep expanding!
It seems as though we’re reaching a natural conclusion, perhaps with one or two more instalments. Life is finite, and eventually, everyone experiences changes and moves on. Yet, there’s a sense that there might be a few more episodes left to explore.
Viewers have yet to witness the past self of Hansu during the 1980s; it remains unclear if he is still monitoring Sunja and her family from a distance, or even if he’s still alive. If you decide to incorporate an older version of Hansu into the narrative, would you opt for Lee Minho with aging makeup, or would you consider casting an older actor instead?
You’ve got a knack for thinking like a producer. At the moment, I can’t fully endorse it, but your line of questioning suggests you’re on the right track.
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You can now stream the entirety of the first two seasons of “Pachinko” on Apple TV+. Check out The Hollywood Reporter’s analysis of the season two finale.
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2024-10-23 00:57