Ramy Youssef and Mo Amer Reflect on the Impactful Final Season of ‘Mo’

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[This story contains spoilers from season two of Mo.]

Mo Amer, the lead actor, creator, writer, and director of the series, describes the second and final season as having a mix of sweetness and sadness when speaking to The Hollywood Reporter. He explains that this bittersweet feeling permeated the entire season.

The groundbreaking television series, first aired in 2022, is overseen by Ramy Youssef as executive producer. It focuses on Mo Najjar, a Palestinian refugee, and his family who have been waiting for asylum in the bustling and sweltering city of Houston, Texas for two years. This show has gained significant acclaim not just for its unique representation of Palestinians, but also for its skillful blend of drama and humor while tackling themes such as immigration, religion, language, and disability.

After receiving rave reviews for its inaugural season, Netflix confirmed in early 2023 that the popular half-hour comedy series would be returning for a farewell run of eight episodes. This ambitious project spanned almost two years. Amer, one of the show’s creators, shares insights into the production timeline: “We started our writing sessions around late March, beginning of April. We worked there until May 1st. Unfortunately, we were hit by a writers and actors strike. After the strike ended, we had five months to work on it. We returned to work on October 1st. However, just six days later, everything took an unexpected turn.

15 months ago, Amer mentioned the tragic incident on October 7, 2023, where Hamas launched attacks on a music festival and nearby communities near the Gaza border in southern Israel, leading to over 1,100 deaths and approximately 250 hostages being taken. Since then, Israel has retaliated with military operations in Gaza, resulting in at least 46,000 Palestinian casualties, more than 109,000 injuries, and displacement of around 1.9 million people as per the Hamas-run Gaza Health Ministry. Efforts for a truce started back in October 2023 but failed until this January. Currently, 79 hostages are still being held by Hamas.

The final episode of the TV series ‘Mo’ concludes on a day prior to October 7th. In this episode, Mo and his family, having just completed their first journey to Palestine in twenty years, encounter an airport check while attempting to re-enter the United States. Amer and Youssef shared with The Hollywood Reporter that they are content with the series’ ending, yet open to exploring further stories within the show’s fictional world.

Amer expressed great satisfaction with the season’s outcome and what was achieved given our limited resources. He was extremely content with how things turned out. However, he emphasized there’s still much more to share about the journey. They poured everything they had into this project, and Amer genuinely feels they gave their best performance possible. While there’s always room for improvement, he’s open to taking on even more if the opportunity arises.

Youssef, the star-producer of Hulu’s Egyptian-American series Ramy, stated, “Mo is an incredibly productive stand-up comedian and a fantastic performer. There are so many stories bubbling out of him. It’s clear that this isn’t the end of his journey, regardless of how it unfolds or what shape it takes.

In an interview with The Hollywood Reporter, Amer and Youssef discuss their journey in steering the show to its appropriate conclusion after more than a year and a half. Topics covered include Amer taking on directorial duties, depicting U.S. immigration detention centers and Palestine, the influence of language (and olive oil), and the acceptance of disability within Arab families.

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The series concludes on October 6, but it was renewed for another season in early 2023. How many parts of the ending were planned ahead and how many changes were made after October 7?

Despite the halt due to the strike, our writing room was thriving with creativity up until then. We had something truly exceptional in the works. Upon returning on October 1st and dealing with subsequent events, it’s clear that some crucial discussions took place among us. I want to emphasize that “difficult” here doesn’t imply arguments or disagreements. It was more about essential conversations that were needed to guide the show towards improvement. As a result of these talks, our team bonded more deeply. This period has been and continues to be an emotionally intense time for us, given the cascade of events that followed afterwards.

After October 7th, we began considering how we could alter our approach to better handle the events that followed. Keep in mind that it’s been 18 months since season two was given the go-ahead, and filming takes at least a year before the show is released. During this time, numerous factors can change, potentially affecting the content of the show significantly. This was a significant risk. Additionally, it’s important to note that the timeline beginning on October 7th is inaccurate. In reality, the events portrayed have been ongoing for around 80 years. I believe it would be misleading to suggest that everything began then.

Ramy has frequently discussed this topic due to numerous heated debates about whether or not to address it, and if so, how. The truth is, exploring this specific incident risks causing significant damage to our characters and the narrative as a whole. It could lead to losing all our characters, the plot, and we might find ourselves confused about everyone’s situation. Emotionally, it can become quite didactic, resulting in on-camera arguments that ultimately derail the story. In reality, it doesn’t showcase each character at their best.

Beyond simply focusing on the current event, I’d also like to delve into the various challenges each character faces, taking into account their past experiences and ongoing circumstances. For instance, my mother constantly monitors the news, a habit that is common among Palestinians who regularly check on their families to ensure they are safe. This pattern has been a constant thread in my life. I aim to reflect this reality in the show by using our characters as catalysts for the narrative, rather than making it solely about the event itself. Given these factors, we decided to establish a timeline for the series and conclude it on October 6th, perhaps hinting at a sense of optimism and progress through a smile.

Prior to the conflict, we had a strategy in place, one that I’ve personally witnessed during my time in the West Bank while navigating checkpoints. I would always keep a friendly expression, not an overly cheerful one that might seem provocative, but a peaceful demeanor instead. Regardless of the circumstances, I aimed to protect my spirit, my emotions, and my thoughts. This was a personal choice, to ensure that the experience wouldn’t shatter me or take away what makes me who I am. I view this as a form of strength, something I hold onto tightly even in challenging situations. If I can maintain this inner resilience, it’s a triumph. I consider myself victorious if I can preserve my spirituality and mental fortitude. This is the essence of our pre-strike plan, and the current situation has only made it more potent.

Ramy Youssef highlights that more individuals are participating in the discussion than ever, which seems to be the most significant change. To put this into perspective, we’ve always understood that this series about a Palestinian refugee must ultimately conclude with a trip to Palestine. That’s simply expected. While creating “Mo,” we also produced “Ramy,” and one episode explicitly delineated certain boundaries regarding the Ramy character as a first-generation immigrant but transforming into a figure with white privilege upon visiting Palestine due to his American citizenship. This is an entirely new narrative. There’s even a fine distinction between diaspora and refugee in a character like Mo.

As a dedicated fan, I’ve been thrilled to work alongside these brilliant creators, knowing that our upcoming episode and storyline would offer a fresh perspective on familiar themes, one that these characters haven’t encountered before in our previous works. It seems like more people are now tuning into our conversation, which aligns perfectly with Mo’s insights. This project, centered around Mo’s journey, has always held a unique allure for me, distinguishing it from any other work we’ve done on Ramy. That’s what makes this show so significant to me personally. I believe much of its essence is a testament to Mo’s vision, one he carried with him since our initial discussions about this pitch back in 2017.

Hey Mo, what led you to accept the director position for the first time during this current season? What made it feel like the perfect opportunity for you?

YOU As the showrunner of your own series titled [series], it’s only fitting that the show should feel so personally connected to you, much like a natural progression. Many elements of this production are inspired by the captivating stories Mo used to share, or would have shared if he were still here. This connection was something I recognized when I first met him in 2015. In fact, I recall Mo sharing an elaborate vision for opening his stand-up special with me. At the time, I thought it didn’t fit a stand-up format, but looking back, it seems like the perfect introduction to a show instead.

Once you establish an environment for this project, it becomes a natural extension – although creating a show is never simple. But when you reach that stage where you’re in the thick of it, it feels almost organic. And if we consider that final episode, it would truly be strange if someone else were to tackle it. In all honesty, it just seems fitting for you to handle it.

In a way that seemed instinctive to me, I found myself sitting in the chair. The entire process was stemming from a specific moment. As you know, Ramy, I’m quite a visual person. I wanted to express my gratitude for all the incredible experiences I’ve been fortunate enough to have, whether it was watching episodes of Ramy or working with Jaume Collet-Serra and Lawrence Sher on Black Adam. Over the years, I’ve observed their work and learned from them. Stepping into season one of Mo alongside Solvan Slick Naim and collaborating with him was a fantastic experience. He encouraged me to explore my ideas for the flashbacks because they were based on my personal experiences. This smooth transition led me to season two, and I feel incredibly grateful for this opportunity. Directing Farah Bsieso and Shireen Dabis in episode seven, especially that heart-wrenchingly beautiful scene on the dock, was a unique experience that I cherished. I did everything in my power to honor it. I tip my hat to the team around me for helping bring those moments to life.

In addition to being a series that explores existence outside of one culture or boundary, this season takes you from Mexico to the U.S.-Mexico border and then to Houston. Could you discuss the process of replicating an immigration detention facility in your storyline?

The challenge in portraying the detention facility was significant because we aimed to accurately represent it, both from a visual standpoint and a narrative perspective. These detention centers are quite simple; they’re essentially warehouses with fencing. That’s how they construct them. Our production team did an impressive job recreating this for us to bring the story to life. Upon entering it, we were all struck by its authenticity. Each member of our crew had a distinct emotional response upon seeing it. It was crucial for us to get this right. Additionally, our screen time in the detention center was limited, so we wanted to convey what I refer to as the sliding scale of refugee experiences. In the episode, you’ll encounter a character discussing his ordeal, such as surviving mudslides, navigating jungles, and encountering snakes. This character is also evading cartels and drinking from a Vienna sausage can. Yet, when confronted with Mo, this individual is surprised by how he arrived, to which Mo replies, “I took a bus.” Our aim was to depict the various hardships that these individuals faced before they reached the detention center, offering a glimpse into their past experiences.

Reflecting on our character Mo’s resilience amidst his circumstances, I found myself contemplating the lives of the detention officers. They, too, are trapped in a prison-like environment. We often project our thoughts onto them without considering their struggles. This idea was greatly influenced by the movie “Midnight Run” and its portrayal of the relationship between Robert De Niro’s character and Charles Grodin’s. The way Mo develops a complex relationship with his detention officer, potentially breaking him down in the end, mirrors this dynamic beautifully. When Mo asks about the guard’s emotional state, he responds that he has no choice but to live each day, either going to work or contemplating suicide. The guard reveals his personal struggles, such as a leaking roof, caring for disabled children, and living with an ailing mother-in-law. For a moment, humanizing the guard was intriguing. However, I didn’t want to focus solely on the detention center setting. I wanted to delve into their experiences – what they consume, how they live, and how they are treated in such dehumanizing conditions. My intention was also to help Mo escape his predicament, but not without considering the consequences of illegally crossing the border.

You also took the Najjars to Palestine. How did you approach filming that? 

In our effort to make the episode as authentic as possible for your village of Burin, we utilized some archival footage from a dream sequence in episode three last season. To fill any gaps, we dispatched a small team to capture the drive into the West Bank. All of this footage presents actual Palestine and the West Bank, including the mosque exterior in our village of Burin. We creatively blended settings from Malta with Israeli territory to achieve the most accurate portrayal of a Palestinian episode. Malta, by the way, was an incredible location, though we had to avoid certain architectural differences for filming purposes. The lifestyle depicted there mirrored my personal experiences in Burin with my family. It was a moving experience to collaborate with a cast from Jerusalem and Nazareth. Actors who portrayed my cousins and aunts in the show were all locals from Jerusalem, Nazareth, and Palestine. Upon arrival, they were amazed by the resemblance and expressed their satisfaction.

In this season’s portrayal of Palestinian culture, you notice a recurring theme of olives. There’s a whole segment dedicated to the production of olive oil, followed by scenes featuring olive trees later on. Could you share your approach and sources of inspiration for integrating these elements into the show?

A specific tune captivated me so much that I structured my entire setting around it. [Amer starts singing Lefty Frizzell’s “If You’ve Got the Money (I’ve Got the Time).”] The rhythm and melody of this song seemed absurdly fitting, helping to tie together all the visual aspects. Our aim was to explore the process behind making Palestinian olive oil. While discussing this episode with Slick, I described it to him. We stumbled upon an antique piece – it’s right in front of my office. I brought it home, and there was this elderly Italian man in his late 80s who had vintage equipment for making olive oil by hand. The process involves several stages, including removing the pits. This old machinery served as inspiration for the visuals, with its movement and rhythm complementing everything perfectly. Few people make olive oil like this, except in Palestinian villages where they use traditional methods such as rolling stones over olives to extract the oil naturally. This traditional process is what inspired our concept.

I’d like to give credit to the team for uncovering this ancient equipment. It was quite astonishing that this individual had kept it and maintained it over such a long period. Dating back to the early 1900s, we were able to piece together the story and create an authentic atmosphere depicting the process of handcrafted olive oil production. The eighth episode showcases traditional Palestinian customs, particularly those found in village life. During olive harvest season, you can often find people gathering under the olive trees for picnics while singing traditional Palestinian folk songs. This is a time to celebrate and spend quality moments with family. In one scene of the eighth episode, there was so much folk music that it felt like a musical. (Chuckles) However, this is an essential part of their culture. A simple olive can remind my mother of a poem or an old folk song. I’ve always wanted to share and highlight this beautiful Palestinian culture, which has stood the test of time for centuries.

Throughout the entire series, Mo encounters various individuals who play significant roles in the immigration system, such as ambassadors, detention center guards, judges, and department agents. Your question asks about the aspects of this experience and the U.S. immigration process we intended to bring to light.

In this TV show, there’s a unique scenario where an individual can be deported yet released under their own promise to return. This was surprising even for us, as it seemed almost unreal. Our immigration lawyer, with decades of experience in the field, confirmed this practice. Upon learning about it, we were taken aback, asking “Is this actually a real thing?” To which he replied, “Yes, it happens around 30% of the time. It’s quite common.” This revelation offers insight into the character’s emotional turmoil in the courtroom, as he expresses his deep-seated feelings towards the judge. Despite always maintaining a calm facade, the character harbors an unrelenting anger and despair. The portrayal evokes empathy for individuals yearning to live peacefully, build families, and secure their future. It seems as if the system is designed to prevent such aspirations. The character does everything in his power to return legally, yet he clings to what truly matters most to him.

The reason he couldn’t dismiss the topic of occupation versus conflict with the ambassador was because he felt strongly about it. He said something like, “No, not so much conflict.” He just couldn’t contain himself. (Laughs) Was he worried he might lose control? Perhaps not, but he didn’t seem to care. Instead, he commented, “Maybe I should have kept quiet, but I feel relieved. I’d rather face the border with everyone else.” He was determined to uphold his integrity amidst attempts to undermine it. It’s about empathy – understanding and feeling for these people who are all just trying to live their lives without unnecessary obstacles. This leads one to ponder why those obstacles exist. Could it be that getting deported and released on your own recognizance is beneficial for business? You get a work permit, yes, but you’ll only be allowed to pick strawberries. How can a family be supported with such a record? It’s about empathy and reframing the mindset towards immigrants who are not instantly transformed into citizens – instead, they face a long journey towards integration.

The process of obtaining citizenship or asylum is incredibly lengthy and challenging, often taking decades. My mom waited 21 years for her citizenship, and it took us a decade to secure her asylum status. If you want a green card, you’ll need to wait five years, and then another four years and nine months before applying for citizenship. However, some choose to expedite the process through fraudulent means, like arranging a sham marriage, which we delved into in our show. But this raises questions about genuine love versus convenience. Hameed (Moayad Alnefaie), a character in our series, is intriguing because he’s navigated it all successfully, having attained his citizenship and papers. He genuinely loves his partner because she has been selfless in her efforts for him. So why wouldn’t he love her? The topic is rich with layers, taking years to fully understand, and can’t be encapsulated in a single sentence.

YOUSSEF These systems are devoid of people, and that’s something Mo excels at depicting. In season one, we managed to convey this, but during my frequent travels with Mo, one of his best jokes was about being detained at the airport without a passport while a dog, equipped with its own passport, was let through. This humorously illustrates the concept of dehumanization – the dog possesses a passport, whereas I do not.

In your text, you pointed out three instances where characters in the story have discussions about the use and interpretation of certain words: Mo’s argument with the ambassador regarding “occupation” versus “conflict,” the back-and-forth between Guy (Simon Rex) and Mo over Israeli couscous, and the immigration department agent referring to Mo as a “customer.” What was the intention behind focusing on these language debates in the story?

In this narrative, it’s common to perceive conflict as merely two individuals engaged in a struggle. However, this portrayal doesn’t accurately reflect the complexities of real-life situations. Conflict indeed exists, but understanding its origins is crucial. This show aims to delve into the root causes of conflict, and the ambassador serves as an excellent conduit for this exploration due to his political background and position as an ambassador in Mexico. The lavish lifestyle he leads provides an ideal setting for discussing conflicts. I believe it’s essential to understand the context of the conflict happening there, and I admire Mo’s determination not to let it slide. When his friend questions him, “Why did you do it? You could have just let it go,” Mo responds, “I can’t sell out. I’m not going to sell out my people.” For a character like Mo, self-forgiveness wouldn’t be possible without gaining a deeper understanding of the nature of conflict. Our intention with this narrative is to offer a fresh perspective and encourage viewers to think more deeply about the subject matter.

As a passionate admirer, I’d like to emphasize that taking someone’s food is more than just stealing sustenance; it’s obliterating a piece of their heritage, a fundamental aspect of their identity. Our lives are deeply intertwined with olives, olive oil, cheese, and omelets prepared under the shade of olive trees – it’s not just a dish, but an integral part of who we are. It’s as if the roots of these trees run through our veins, shaping us, defining us. To tamper with this is to erase an entire culture.

The humor lies in the fervor some people exhibit when correcting misuse of hummus, Israeli couscous, or any other dish [Mo] chooses to scrutinize. This is what makes the dialogue in episode six so captivating. When he confronts Guy in his restaurant, his frustration boils over, and he exclaims, “You know what’s hidden behind that wall? That’s where the recipes originate.” It’s a potent statement. Later, we see him reflecting on his outburst, his eyes revealing vulnerability as he acknowledges, “I was just deported.” Yet, everything he said holds truth.

Having conversations about such topics can be challenging, but it’s amusing to watch someone passionately debate over hummus or falafel tacos. To most people, it’s just a falafel taco, but for me, it’s more than that – it’s a significant part of my life. My mom often says this, “You can take many things, but please don’t touch our hummus.” This sentiment is deeply rooted in our identity and defines who we are. It’s about preserving these traditions and holding onto them tightly.

Just like Ramy, people with disabilities are woven into the broader tapestry of the show’s world, and this season provides a compassionate and genuine depiction of the experiences faced by Sameer (Omar Elba) and his family upon receiving a diagnosis. Could you elaborate on how you crafted this storyline with the same level of authenticity as your other narratives?

The story of AMER resonates deeply with me due to a personal connection; my brother has faced similar struggles. Often, such issues are hidden within families, especially among Arab households, where they’re commonly swept under the rug and dismissed as normal. In most cases, people simply say everything is fine. However, in my family, we chose to confront these challenges and seek help. Initially, it was tough to address this matter, but the portrayal of Sameer’s situation in the restaurant and its impact on the family, leading Nadia to question his wellbeing and talk to [Mo’s] mother, provided a compelling narrative thread. Furthermore, Mo’s growing frustration with Sameer in episode four, as he displays tics and loses control, was an authentic representation of our real-life experiences. The raw emotion displayed in that moment was essential to depict the reality of such situations.

In terms of crafting this therapy scene, I chose to step back and let a professional take the lead. I wanted to ensure that our portrayal was authentic and true-to-life, especially when it came to the therapist character. To achieve this, we brought in an autism specialist to consult on the editing process. I left them with our editor, Lauren [Connelly], to discuss and refine the scene details together. My goal wasn’t about personal preference but rather ensuring accuracy for someone diagnosed with autism. The consultant made numerous adjustments to the therapist’s dialogue, ensuring it was as accurate and precise as possible. I am truly thankful for her expertise and guidance in helping us execute this crucial scene effectively.

For me too, some scenes from the show are incredibly moving, and Omar Elba’s performance in them is simply outstanding. He’s undeniably one of the most talented actors we’ve had the pleasure to work alongside.

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Mo is now streaming seasons one and two on Netflix.

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2025-02-06 21:57