Joshua Oppenheimer on How His Dystopian Musical ‘The End’ Might Sway U.S. Voters: “We Have a Choice Between a Bunker and Inclusivity”

Joshua Oppenheimer on How His Dystopian Musical ‘The End’ Might Sway U.S. Voters: “We Have a Choice Between a Bunker and Inclusivity”

As a film enthusiast, I must admit that I feel truly captivated by Josh Schmidt’s creative journey in crafting The End. His unique approach to collaboration, where he effortlessly intertwines music and lyrics, creating a symphony of emotions, is nothing short of mesmerizing. It’s as if they are painting a sonnet, each stroke bringing forth a new shade of feeling.


Joshua Oppenheimer expresses a sense of hopefulness. According to the filmmaker, his upcoming post-apocalyptic musical movie titled “The End” featuring Tilda Swinton, Michael Shannon, and George MacKay presents a chance to ignite positive change.

As I chatted with The Hollywood Reporter at the San Sebastian Film Festival, where my movie was showing, I revealed that my inspiration to create this film stemmed from a fascinating encounter. I visited the secret hideout of an influential figure who, strangely enough, refused to disclose the reasons behind his investment in a fortified shelter. As a gamer, I found this mystery intriguing and it sparked the imagination for my project.

“Echoes from the Vault

In the scenario where you’re living isolated in a bunker, trying to maintain some sense of prestige and fortune, how do you deal with the emptiness or purposelessness that seems to surround you, as depicted in the story The End?” (Oppenheimer)

The movie made its debut at the 51st Telluride Film Festival in August. It’s set to be distributed by Neon in the United States on December 6.

In a conversation with THR at San Sebastian, the filmmaker delved into the challenging task of blending a bleak future with 1950s Broadway tunes, expressing his desire for viewers to grapple with their regrets amidst a deteriorating Earth. He also hinted that this movie could inspire voters in the upcoming U.S. election by suggesting that, much like the father in “The End,” Donald Trump might evade punishment, but no one, including him or us, can elude consequences for consistently neglecting our fellow humans.

Given that you’re a veteran in documentary filmmaking and now embarking on your debut narrative feature, did the prospect of this new challenge fill you with apprehension or exhilaration?

The experience was thrilling, and I never considered myself as a documentary filmmaker initially. My education didn’t focus on documentary filmmaking. Instead, in film school or university, I created narrative short films and experimental ones. However, what truly drives me to make a film is a question that demands thorough examination. I then select the appropriate form and approach for this purpose. In this instance, I was working on a documentary with an oligarch involved in the oil industry who had backed political violence in his native land, and he was purchasing a bunker for his family’s safety. During my visit to the bunker with his family, I observed that they struggled to discuss any of the pressing issues that seemed to echo from the walls.

In a solitary existence within this bunker, striving to maintain a sense of position and riches along with your art collection, how do you deal with the chasm of purposelessness into which you’ve plunged yourself? How do you handle guilt over your part in the disaster you’re escaping? How do you endure the regret of leaving behind loved ones because they might have been troublesome or inconvenient, yet are truly valuable people in your life?

Originally, I aimed to create a documentary about them, 25 years after they settled in the bunker. However, I soon realized this wasn’t feasible. Instead, I chose to develop a fiction film, one inspired by the upbeat, progressive Broadway musicals of the 1950s, eschewing satire. It would be deeply earnest and titled The End. Conceiving and executing this project was challenging, almost like embarking on a second career. Yet, if it wasn’t challenging, then you hadn’t posed a question significant enough.

What was that specific question in your mind, if you could summarize it succinctly?

It seems to me that we shape our realities at the core and as a global human community by crafting convenient and soothing narratives. In other words, it’s about how we manage to convince ourselves of these tales. How we deceive ourselves, and what transpires when those deceptions fall apart? Truth be told, I’m an optimist, and for me, this film serves as a beacon of hope. And I believe that with the exception of Michael Shannon, everyone else in the cast shares my optimistic outlook. [Laughs.] However, even though it might not seem so at first glance, I think he too is an optimist at heart.

Secretly?

The movie isn’t exactly a secret, but it carries a strong dedication towards creating an optimistic narrative. This optimism stems from the underlying theme that cautionary tales often possess – the idea that while the family in this dystopian setting may be beyond help, there is still hope for us. If we can create a film that inspires people to confront their regrets truthfully, seek forgiveness when needed, forgive themselves and others, then as humanity, we might yet alter our course before we plunge headlong into environmental disaster.

There’s a point where one of your characters might utter something similar to, “If I weren’t living as I am, someone else would have stepped up.” He argues that it’s arrogant to believe that one’s actions could matter significantly. However, you’re suggesting that this isn’t merely a form of denial prevalent only in the dystopian future. Instead, this denial is also present in our current reality.

Indeed, what you’re saying resonates with me. It seems to me that the film George MacKay mentioned yesterday can be seen as a representation of our current times rather than the future. In essence, it serves as a reflection of ourselves, much like a dark mirror. This reminds me of Oscar Wilde’s novel, “The Picture of Dorian Gray,” where the protagonist’s portrait ages instead of him. Similarly, this film encourages us to confront our errors before they become irreversible.

Joshua Oppenheimer on How His Dystopian Musical ‘The End’ Might Sway U.S. Voters: “We Have a Choice Between a Bunker and Inclusivity”

Is this movie significant in light of the upcoming crucial U.S. election? I’m curious if you can share your insights on whether it encourages voters to consider the type of leader they should choose when casting their ballots.

Absolutely! In my gaming world, I’d say it feels like a challenging battle in an RPG where we’re fighting against an entrenched system that’s skewed towards a select few, akin to a powerful boss in the game. This boss is like the oligarchy, restricting freedom and fairness for all. In my home country, the USA, it seems we’re choosing between two paths: one path where we isolate ourselves, construct barriers, and lose our empathy for others – a sort of ‘fortress mode’ that might look good on paper but in reality strips us of our humanity. The other path is a more unified vision, where we recognize the interconnectedness of all people as one global family, fostering compassion and understanding.

When we solely focus our efforts on maintaining a family at the expense of humanity as a whole, we inflict harm upon ourselves. Discussing immunity, Donald Trump might evade justice, similar to the father in “The End“, but neither he, nor any of us, can avoid the consequences of consistently disregarding fellow human beings. Even those closest to us whom we cherish, we sometimes convince ourselves, “I won’t acknowledge this pain that persists between us because it’s too challenging. We’ll be okay, we’ll be okay, we’ll be okay.” However, we may postpone this private moment of reckoning until we grow older and confront our own mortality.

This recipe leads to hollow existences, in my opinion, and I find it uncalled for. I present this movie with the highest optimism and hope that we, individually, can bring about changes at every level – from the most public policy-making platforms to our personal lives.

Writing a musical, and crafting these sequences, is a whole other genre in itself.

Indeed, it was an experience, one that initially filled me with fear, particularly when I discovered the need for rhyme in my lyrics. Yet, it proved to be a wondrous and enchanting journey, reminiscent of being whisked away into a fairy tale, or a sorcerer’s academy, where I felt like an apprentice, experimenting with spells I barely understood. In this case, Josh Schmidt, the composer, encouraged me to pen lyrics that encapsulated each character’s deepest convictions at the moment they began singing in “The End“. These were often written as brief prose poems and sent to him. Within minutes, hours, or occasionally days, he would respond with a captivating piece of music, rich in polyrhythms and harmonies that soared. He would then share this composition with me, and I would have to modify the lyrics to suit the rhythm and rhyme patterns suggested by the music.

2020 marked the peak of the pandemic for us as we embarked on writing our songs, an experience filled with sheer joy. I’ve been yearning to collaborate on another musical, and I can’t wait to do it alongside him. My editor recently suggested, “We should sing together more, Joshua,” to which I responded, “Why so?” He replied, “Because happiness is when you can truly sing.” While there are blues and genres of music that convey melancholy, they also serve as a form of comfort to oneself.

As a gamer, I couldn’t help but feel blessed to have an exceptional team at my fingertips, featuring the talents of Tilda, Michael, and George. Working alongside these seasoned actors was nothing short of exhilarating. Each day on set felt like a new adventure, learning from their expertise and watching them breathe life into their characters. It truly was a privilege to be part of such a talented ensemble.

They infused this project with an extraordinary, radiant human energy that was almost palpable. Their dedication was reminiscent of a group fervently anticipating a significant event, like members of a doomsday cult awaiting the rapture. I’ve never witnessed a film where the cast’s commitment felt more intense. This style resonates strongly with my filmmaking philosophy, which is rooted in a profound fascination and affection for everyone who appears on-screen. My curiosity drives me to create films, and it’s this curiosity that sets each production apart. Tilda approaches each take as if it were a sandbox for creative exploration. I strive to provide her with numerous opportunities to discover new aspects because she consistently uncovers something extraordinary over multiple takes… George arrives on set meticulously prepared, ready to present a rich array of interconnected interpretations that allow us to fine-tune the character or performance details at the drop of a hat.

Michael consistently hits the mark spot-on, yet he’s always eager to delve deeper into intriguing, mind-blowing aspects of his role. Working with Michael’s performance in post-production requires sharp intellect and careful attention to maintain a cohesive narrative. The same can be said for Bronagh Gallagher and Moses Ingram’s performances as Friend and Girl respectively. Bronagh brings an unprecedented level of pain and vulnerability to her role. On the other hand, Moses portrays layers upon layers of secrets, which is precisely why she was cast in this role.

Are you excited to be here in San Sebastian?

I found San Sebastian captivating, and I hold it dear. During my last visit here for this festival, they showcased a retrospective on “The Act of Killing” and “The Look of Silence,” as well as films that might have influenced them. My work revolves around the concept that we shape our world through the narratives we construct about it, as I’ve mentioned before. Additionally, I am a filmmaker with political leanings, focusing on societal trends, which inevitably leads me to examine themes of power and impunity. Spain is an intriguing destination because people often ask me about its history with fascism, which didn’t fully subside until the 1980s – much later than most other Western European countries. This has left a significant legacy concerning impunity that remains relevant to this day.

The link between historical narratives being manipulated by victors to hide their actions, alleviate their remorse, and the challenges we currently face in striving for a fairer society and sustainable existence, remains poignantly relevant in modern-day Spain. This is one possible paraphrase.

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2024-09-25 21:27