As a filmmaker who has navigated the industry for quite some time, I can understand why comparisons are drawn between movies, especially when they share common themes or elements. However, it’s always a bit amusing when people make connections to films that were conceived and developed before the other even existed!
Filmmaker Greg Jardin spent a total of sixteen years trying to secure funding for two different projects – initially a sci-fi comedy worth $10 million, then a genre-blending idea that became his directorial debut. In 2024, after eight years of persistence, he finally premiered “It’s What’s Inside” at the Sundance Film Festival, and within three days, he and his production team secured a $17 million acquisition deal with Netflix for the film.
Garden, who has built a successful career producing shorts, music videos, and promotional materials for Netflix series like “Wednesday” and “When They See Us”, had humble expectations for his comedic sci-fi thriller ahead of Sundance. His main worry was ensuring that the $2.5 million film wouldn’t result in a loss for his partners at Such Content, Kate Andrews’ Boldly Go Productions, and Colman and Raul Domingo’s Edith Productions.
Two months ahead of schedule, our movie made it into Sundance. I was taken aback when I received the call because at that point, the film wasn’t completed yet. To be honest, I hadn’t anticipated getting in. It all felt like a distant dream after submitting an early version online.” This is how Jardin explained it to The Hollywood Reporter.
Instead of raising Jardin’s hopes too high, the film’s representative, Benjamin Kramer, decided to adjust his expectations, considering the current post-COVID market trends and the performance of similar films in recent years.
Ben Kramer from CAA told us not to fret if a sale didn’t happen in one night, as ‘Talk to Me’ sold in just three days, an extraordinarily quick pace. Remarkably, we received our first offer only 24 hours after our screening, which was absolutely astonishing,” Jardin remembers Kramer saying.
Garden, seated comfortably within several Airbnb rentals in Park City, observed Kramer commute to work, all the way until Netflix emerged victorious in a bidding war offering a staggering sum of $17 million.
[Kramer] employed his typical tactics from ‘Succession’, which involved stirring competition among potential buyers and escalating the price. This was quite enlightening for a novice like myself, who’s not yet familiar with the practical business side of this sector,” Jardin explains.
The quick summary for “It’s What’s Inside” is that it blends the suspenseful atmosphere of “Bodies Bodies Bodies” with the intriguing concept of “Talk to Me.” A group of ex-college friends convene for a pre-wedding festivity, turning into a boisterous house party. However, rather than partaking in a game simulating murder or demonic possession, they encounter a mysterious suitcase containing a device that enables body-swapping. Naturally, chaos ensues as things spiral out of control.
In a recent chat with THR, Jardin – who was both editor and VFX artist for the movie – also talked about Colman Domingo’s significant role in bringing ‘It’s What’s Inside’ to life. He further discussed the possibility of a sequel to this critically acclaimed film.
Among the numerous Florida State alumni who have made their mark in the entertainment industry, you are one of them. Notable figures like Barry Jenkins, Wes Ball, Amy Seimetz, David Robert Mitchell, and others, have followed this path. Your senior thesis short film, titled “The Problem with Fiber Optics” (2005), served as a catalyst for your career, leading to opportunities in music videos, shorts, and Netflix promotions. In 2016, you began contemplating the creation of It’s What’s Inside. Was it at this point that you recognized the need for a low-budget project to increase your chances of breaking into feature directing?
Absolutely. Upon my arrival in L.A., when I had Fiber Optics, I secured representation and spent eight years working on a $10 million budgeted sci-fi comedy feature. We approached numerous producers to secure funding and cast, but were unsuccessful. Realizing the challenge of obtaining such a large sum, I decided to write a film set in one location that could be produced at minimal cost. This marked the beginning of “It’s What Inside”.
Did you pen the script and then share it widely with friends and acquaintances? Was it Colman Domingo’s close associates who initially viewed the concept and helped bring it to life?
Throughout 2016, I dedicated my time to penning this script, and in the year that followed, my agent and I circulated it among various industry contacts. We encountered a certain level of curiosity, but it often led to suggestions for revisions with little follow-up. The process was full of ups and downs until I crossed paths with Kate Andrews, who worked at KatzSmith Production Company. She was one of the recipients of my script, and eventually, she advanced in her career to become a development executive at Edith Productions under Colman. A year after I initially submitted it to her, she passed it along to him. Impressed by some short-form Netflix content I had previously produced, particularly my work with Ava DuVernay, he expressed interest in producing the script. This paved the way for a production company called Such Content to finance the project.
Was it Colman who proposed casting Alycia Debnam-Carey, possibly because they had previously collaborated on Fear the Walking Dead?
Indeed, he had proposed her, and at first, I must admit, I harbored a degree of doubt. All I knew of her was from Fear the Walking Dead, but her character on that show bore little resemblance to Nikki. It wasn’t until I encountered Alycia at a party hosted by Colman that I realized she was quite distinct from her screen persona. I remember thinking, “Wow, this person is nothing like their character in Fear the Walking Dead.” This led me to think, “Perhaps she’d be a good fit,” and eventually, she proved to be outstanding. So, thank you, Colman, for that recommendation.
Were the actors required to record several roles because of the body-swap concept in the audition process?
In most cases, I made actors who tried out read for at least two roles during their audition. Forbes’ auditions were open to everyone, and initially, I asked anyone who tried out for Forbes to also read for Cyrus. However, David W. Thompson, as Forbes, was one of those instances where you could tell within five seconds that he was the right person. It felt like, “Ah, here is the man.” I had him perform both Forbes and Cyrus, and the majority of other auditions also read for two characters.
I’ve long admired David, particularly his supporting roles in Jeremy Saulnier’s movies “Blue Ruin” and “Green Room”. However, this latest performance seems to offer him the most substantial part yet, and he truly excelled in it.
He’s amazing in this, and I’m hoping that someone from Lucasfilm sees his performance and casts him as an Imperial officer.
That’d be perfect.
I loved his casting in Green Room, and I’ve seen Green Room five times at this point. He really stood out to me as Tad, the guy at the beginning with the mohawk. I thought he was such an interesting actor, and when I saw his audition, I didn’t even realize that he was the same guy until I googled him. I was like, “Oh my God, that’s Tad from Green Room. That is insane.” So I am just thrilled with what he did, and I can’t wait for people to see what range he has.
I often pondered about an additional scene in Green Room where character Tad realizes the trouble he instigated, having invited The Ain’t Rights to perform at the skinhead club where his relative was employed.
(Laughs.) And his cousin got shot in the head!
Absolutely! Witnessing Tad’s response to the chain reaction he accidentally set off would have been quite a spectacle.
I’ll see if I can make that happen. I’ll talk to Jeremy and David.
Indeed, it’s going to be an exceptional addition to your movie. The Green Room extra content uncovers its hidden depths.
(Laughs heartily.) Oh, isn’t that a hoot! It seems Forbes has taken over Tad, and “Green Room” is in fact the follow-up to “It’s What’s Inside”.
That’s terrific! In your script, you included parentheticals revealing each character’s true identity, and you also had them wear Polaroid photos of their real selves. This approach seems to benefit the audience greatly. Additionally, you incorporated occasional red light sequences to highlight the characters’ root identities for enhanced understanding. I’m curious if you had an extensive rehearsal period to avoid managing these intricate dynamics on set?
Indeed. I requested a full week for rehearsals with the cast, which my producers successfully arranged at a house in Portland. As you suggested, without that week of preparation, I’m not convinced the movie would have turned out as it did. During that time, the actors grew closer to each other. I encouraged them to create and refine their characters’ unique quirks, and then taught these characteristics to the rest of the cast. I also allowed them ample room for improvisation.
In other words, in the original script, Dennis didn’t use the term “bro” much, but the actor portraying Dennis, Gavin Leatherwood, frequently used it. When I heard this, I realized that saying “bro” often helped to quickly and easily recognize Dennis. Consequently, I removed all instances of “bros” from the script and instead assigned them all to Dennis. Many of these changes emerged during the rehearsal week as we saw what the actors were doing, so I ended up rewriting the script quite a bit during that period.
Did Maya’s (Nina Bloomgarden) tendency to say “dude” also emerge from that rehearsal?
Previously, I included the character trait for the man (Cyrus) due to its significance in the plot. During our rehearsal phase, it was noted that James Morosini’s character exhibits an inability to complete his sentences. Devon Terrell’s portrayal of Reuben’s exuberance, enthusiasm, self-destructive tendencies, and propensity for partying were ideas that emerged during the rehearsal week. I can hardly envision making another film without incorporating a similar rehearsal period.
Each moment I began to drift and lose focus, the film seemed to sense this and quickly brought me back on track. In other words, whoever designed the movie’s testing process must have gained some incredibly useful insights throughout the process.
Absolutely, I discovered that test screenings were incredibly valuable in my opinion. Sitting through them allowed me to sense what was effectively engaging and what needed improvement. The discussions following these screenings were particularly enlightening, as they highlighted areas of confusion, such as parts of the coda. It seemed that the red light sequences, which depicted character possession, were generally well-received throughout most of the movie. However, during test screenings, it became evident that we could benefit from more red light sequences towards the end to ensure clarity. Fortunately, these red light scenes were straightforward to film as they only required a single light source. Consequently, we scheduled some additional pickup shots, or “red light” scenes, to be incorporated into the coda, ensuring that the audience would fully understand each character’s final position.
In the movie you worked on, you took on roles beyond that of writer and director, including editor and visual effects artist. Was this decision driven equally by cost considerations and a desire to showcase your versatility?
(Laughing.) You know, I took up editing and visual effects for my earlier shorts and music videos as a way to save costs. Since we couldn’t afford a professional VFX artist, I taught myself Adobe After Effects for that particular project. Over the years, I picked up skills in Cinema 4D as well, primarily because I or the production couldn’t afford anyone else. This was especially beneficial when I started directing. It allowed me to make quick decisions and grasp the post-production workflow better. As a result, I became a more confident director. By the time I was shooting “It’s What’s Inside”, I had a good idea of how it would be edited, what we needed, and what wasn’t necessary from an VFX perspective on set.
To put it simply, “It’s What’s Inside” wasn’t primarily a cost-cutting measure, but rather an experience I wouldn’t want to repeat when it comes to handling VFX in my own films due to the extensive time spent on the computer. However, I appreciate being involved in every stage of the project, from planning shots and understanding their editing process to actually editing them and adding music. In this project, our composer, Andrew Hewitt, even composed the music ahead of time, allowing us to use all the cues during the rehearsal week, which was incredibly beneficial for the cast.
At the Sundance Film Festival in 2024, the movie was screened on January 19th. Following this premiere, a fierce bidding war ensued among various parties. This story unfolds as we follow Netflix’s successful $17 million bid for the film. Let me help you visualize the lead-up to this winning offer.
As a passionate film enthusiast, I found myself in an unbelievable situation when I received the call about our movie getting accepted to Sundance two months ahead of schedule. Frankly, I never thought we’d make it in, given the film wasn’t yet completed. It felt like a far-fetched fantasy after submitting an early version on their website.
After receiving various proposals, our team and I visited different studios’ Airbnbs for discussions. Occasionally, the bidders came to our Airbnb instead, and then our sales representative employed his “Succession” tactic – essentially, he would stimulate competition among the bidders to increase the final price. Most of that day, I found myself observing him work rather than actively participating in meetings. The meetings themselves accounted for about 20% of the day, while the rest was spent watching him operate. This experience provided me with valuable insights into the business side of this industry, given my relative newcomer status.
After wrapping up our epic gaming tournament, I found myself immersed in a real-life bidding war the very next day. This battle of wits stretched over three days, with a particularly intense session that extended past midnight. Alas, we had to pause as key players needed to discuss the matter with their L.A. studio headquarters.
Was there ever a situation in your line of work where you faced a dilemma similar to Richard Linklater’s, who had a $20 million deal sealed with Netflix for his film “Hit Man,” but also had a $10 million offer from Neon for U.S. rights and additional costs associated with a nationwide cinema release? In other words, did you find yourself in a position where you needed to choose between a lucrative streaming platform deal and a traditional theatrical release with potential higher costs?
Indeed, there were numerous types of proposals on the table: theater, streaming, among others. This led to a multifaceted decision-making process. In the end, I found myself incredibly fortunate due to the unexpected interest. Frankly, just having one offer was already more than I had anticipated. The fact that multiple parties were vying for it still leaves me in a state of disbelief. Nonetheless, Netflix emerged victorious and so far have proven to be an excellent collaborator.
Were the 17 million reasons enough for your decision to choose Netflix, or was your long-term association with them a factor as well, given that you’ve promoted them extensively in the past?
For nearly a decade before producing the movie, they’ve supported me financially, and our professional bond has been incredibly strong. My collaboration with them in marketing has been exceptional. They’ve given me the freedom to direct some wild projects, and honestly, I can’t comprehend why they invest in these customized promotions. For instance, we made a $800,000 promo for Cowboy Bebop, which is quite extravagant. I filmed it in New Zealand for two months, an experience I thoroughly enjoyed. However, the team that purchased the film was different from those I worked with on marketing. The acquisitions department took care of that. If the marketing people I’d collaborated with approached me about the movie, my feelings might have been more personal. But, despite my affection for Netflix, I wouldn’t say loyalty played a significant role in the actual sale of the film.
In this town, people often simplify their comparisons. Just like me, I’ve found myself using such comparisons when describing your film as a blend of “Bodies Bodies Bodies” and “Talk to Me”. I presume others may have done the same. Does it bother you a bit that these comparisons were made, considering you conceived this movie well before either of those films came into existence?
(Grins) That’s an intriguing query! Indeed, there are similarities between our latest projects and some other recent ones. In my perspective, they all revolve around young characters engaging in a game within a house, where things take an unexpected turn. So, the comparisons seem quite justified. As for the body swap theme, I can’t help but acknowledge the iconic status of “Freaky Friday.” However, it’s essential to remember that we were already in the midst of production when some of these movies hit the screen. If someone accuses us of borrowing ideas, I believe they might be overlooking the timeline a bit!
I sometimes simplify comparisons, likening this to a blend of “Freaky Friday”, “The Big Chill”, and “Black Mirror” with an underlying essence of “Bodies Bodies Bodies”, “Talk to Me”, or other movies that share similar themes. However, these comparisons are based on the inherent similarities between the films, not suggesting they are identical or overlapping in their unique qualities. It’s my hope that viewers will appreciate each movie for its distinctiveness, but ultimately, people’s perceptions can’t always be controlled. In any case, it’s far better to be compared to “Bodies Bodies Bodies” and “Talk to Me”, which are both excellent films, than to some other movies.
Does the finale of the movie set up possibilities for a follow-up, yet without resorting to the overt approach often associated with setting up sequels? In other words, if Netflix requested a proposal for a sequel right now, would you be ready to present one?
Since the Sundance event, I’ve been asked that question quite frequently, and honestly, it took so long to create this one that hearing people’s interest was initially surprising. However, have I contemplated what a sequel might entail? Absolutely. Am I certain we will produce a sequel? Not at all — the truth is, I don’t know. But I have certainly brainstormed some ideas.
In your story, both the characters and the fiber optics, as well as their respective inner workings, share a common thread. They all depict individuals ready to relinquish something of themselves to attain what they believe is their lifelong desire. Are you intentionally delving into this theme?
Initially, I appreciate your inquiry regarding those topics. To be honest, I hadn’t given it much thought before, but you do raise a valid point. Indeed, these three subjects appear to revolve around the quest for personal transformation in order to attract love or stimulate desire. Quite intriguing, isn’t it? This seems like something worth discussing with my therapist. There appears to be a significant connection here that needs exploration.
To put it another way, if we were to expand the title, I suspect it would be What Matters Most is What’s on the Inside. Is the movie, in essence, conveying the idea that our inner character and true nature hold more significance than an appealing exterior?
I believe it’s about questioning the gap between how we portray ourselves, often exaggerated by social media, and our true selves. To illustrate this disparity, let’s consider two extremes: someone who is well-liked online versus someone who feels unappreciated in their relationships and longs for online popularity. This contrast seems fitting to explore the vast divide between virtual and real-life acceptance.
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It’s What’s Inside is now streaming on Netflix.
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2024-10-04 21:56