Beginning May 9th, David Mamet’s long-awaited directorial debut, titled “Henry Johnson,” will be streamable on HenryJohnsonMovie.com. This film is a faithful representation of Mamet’s own play, initially performed at a black box theater in Venice during 2023, where it received much praise for both the author and lead actor Shia LeBeouf.
The timing seems incredibly favorable for LaBeouf, aged 38, a talented yet troubled actor, who at present, finds himself inches away from Hollywood’s doorstep amidst the aftermath of several contentious issues. One of the most significant is an upcoming lawsuit filed by his former partner FKA Twigs, alleging sexual assault and emotional torment. LaBeouf has admitted to engaging in harmful acts but refutes the specific charges, and the trial is scheduled for September this year.
In “Henry Johnson,” the character portrayed by Evan Jonigkeit, who is married to playwright David Mamet’s daughter Zosia, finds himself captivated by Gene, a cunning and quick-witted inmate, played by Henry Johnson.
Actor Shia LaBeouf, known for his on-screen roles since 2022 as a father to a daughter with actress Mia Goth, is currently filming Christopher Nolan’s ‘The Odyssey.’ His performance in the movie has garnered praise once more, with The Hollywood Reporter pointing out in its review that the “undercurrent of madness and hidden peril that elevates many of his finest performances” makes him an ideal choice for the character.
As a devoted admirer, I must say that Mamet, at 77, is no stranger to stirring up debates. The acclaimed playwright-director, whose masterpiece “Glengarry Glen Ross” graces Broadway for its fourth revival (with an impressive cast featuring Bob Odenkirk, Kieran Culkin, and Bill Burr), has left his fair share of allies and adversaries in Tinseltown. He’s been vocal about supporting Donald Trump, a stance that has not endeared him to everyone within the Hollywood sphere.
Two once-exiled Hollywood actors unexpectedly producing some of their finest work together? To uncover the story behind this collaboration, THR had an engaging lunch discussion with both at The Smoke House Restaurant in Burbank (Shia preferred clam chowder and shrimp cocktail, while David opted for chopped sirloin). This conversation was as captivating as any tale Gene might spin to Henry Johnson within a confined cell.
Hey there! Back in 2014, I found myself in an unusual encounter at that art installation on Beverly Boulevard. It was a room where people could sit across from a mysterious figure, me included. My head was covered with a paper bag, only my eyes were visible through holes. I remember being one of the early visitors to experience this intriguing setup.
DAVID MAMET What did you do when you got in the room?
It seemed unreal, almost like a dream. I had my doubts about whether it was really Shia.
MAMET Because of the bag.
Indeed, I recently found myself in an uncomfortable dialogue with him, attempting to involve him, but he remained silent. After that, things ended abruptly, and I was politely asked to leave.
Dave, I’ve come across interviews from the American Buffalo era that suggest you weren’t particularly fond of performance art.
Prior to that, during the ’60s, I was already residing and working in New York City. A lot of events were unfolding in the Bowery and St. Mark’s Place, but they didn’t make sense to me at the time.
LABEOUF Yeah, no, I understand. I went through my own process and wound up in a similar spot.
I heard that art piece went off the rails because people were harassing and molesting you.
In advance, we expected these issues. People have a tendency to exaggerate situations. If you provide them with opportunities, that’s often what happens. Twice, things got out of control, but someone always intervened. Someone was attempting to strike my legs, and there were instances of inappropriate behavior. I simply can’t comprehend the significance or worth of such an incident.
That was one in a series of performance art pieces you had done.
I’ve spent a considerable amount of time searching for guidance. To be honest, I used to think I didn’t need much assistance to accomplish what I set out to do. I was quite self-centered, fearful, and lacked trust in others. Many individuals tried to mentor me, but I found it hard to trust them or appreciate their work. Sometimes, even something as trivial as someone’s hairstyle could be a deal-breaker for me. If you’re entrusting someone with the responsibility of guiding your life, which is how it feels when in this type of relationship, it’s crucial to have trust in them.
How was David’s hairstyle — or his directing style in general?
LEBOUF This tool is exceptional, and I’m not just saying that because it’s close at hand. It offers precision while still allowing for jazz-like improvisation within its structure. Unlike Oliver Stone’s work in the 2010 film Wall Street: Money Never Sleeps, where every detail is meticulously crafted, this isn’t a criticism of that artist. In fact, I hold him in high regard. However, this is a different kind of creation.
It seems that the two of you share a similar spirit of rebellion. Given this shared characteristic, it’s not surprising that you would cross paths eventually. How did you manage to connect with each other?
Originally, I penned a fan letter to him. Over the past decade, I’ve been trying to work with him. There have been opportunities where I could fit in, but things would shift direction. Recently, the project regarding JFK’s assassination served as an illustration. I was preparing to play Lee Harvey Oswald, Viggo Mortensen had agreed to join, and we were all set to start production. But unfortunately, the project took a turn in another direction. The JFK assassination scenario is just one instance where this has happened.
After receiving a deeply emotional call from Dave, a tone I’d never heard before, one of sorrow. His child was taken away. The details aren’t clear, but it seems he was forced out of the situation. I can’t help but think, how do I comfort this man I care for?
Dave called me in a way I’d never heard before – heartbroken. His child had been taken from him, and I don’t know the specifics, but it appears he was pushed out. It leaves me wondering how to ease the pain of this person dear to me.
What happened to the JFK project, David?
Instead of producing the film, they opted for a legal battle against one another. Consequently, a flurry of lawsuits ensued, involving figures such as Courtney Love, John Travolta, and Al Pacino.
LABEOUF It was a sick cast. It would’ve been crazy.
MAMET Louis C.K. was going to play Jack Ruby.
Shia, you mentioned writing a fan letter to David. What did you say in the fan letter?
LABEOUF Let me explain, I’ve actually met Al Pacino before. We were planning to perform a play called Orphans on Broadway together. And I must admit, I’m terrified. I’m just a boy who grew up with Transformers and was nurtured by Spielberg through Disney. I have all these doubts: “You don’t deserve it.” And then you spend time with Gary Oldman [on the set of 2012’s Lawless and 2016’s Man Down]. And you also hang out with John Hurt [on the set of 2008’s New York, I Love You and Indiana Jones and Kingdom of the Crystal Skull]. And Hurt tells you all about Oscar Wilde. But I can’t relate to Oscar Wilde. It feels like I don’t belong in this world. I’ve had this feeling for a long time. It’s a deep-seated sense that I’m not good enough, or something like that.
The books by Dave have been instrumental in my journey. One such book is “True and False: Heresy and Common Sense for the Actor”. John Hurt had shared with me his skepticism towards Stanislavsky, which I encountered while working on “Indiana Jones”. Ray Winstone was there too, and I felt quite intimidated being in their presence, given that I was still considered a TV kid. However, they recommended this book to me. It made acting seem more attainable rather than some mystical gift. I’m not a method actor; I’m a hard worker, and that book has been my only acting guide throughout my career.
Or in a shorter version:
The book “True and False: Heresy and Common Sense for the Actor” by Dave was instrumental in making me feel that acting is within reach through hard work rather than some mystical gift. I’ve been working in the industry, but still consider myself more of a TV kid. John Hurt shared his skepticism towards Stanislavsky while we were filming “Indiana Jones”, and Ray Winstone recommended this book to me. I don’t identify as a method actor; instead, I’m a grinder who relies solely on this book for guidance in my acting career.
In my preparation alongside Pacino, he often shared that his iconic role in “American Buffalo” shaped him significantly. At some point, I penned a letter to Dave and included an unremarkable script within it. This was during my stint as an aspiring screenwriter, filled with the excitement and challenges that came along with it – including the plagiarism controversy and related issues. As I seek role models, I didn’t receive a reply. However, a year later, I got word from him regarding a TV series he was developing about Chicago.
MAMET Oh yeah.
Remind me, Shia, wasn’t there an instance when you left the production of “Orphan” due to some creative differences or perhaps personal issues with your fellow actor, Alec Baldwin?
As a fervent admirer, When Baldwin arrived, the situation was nearly unbalanced – a challenge for me, given my fragile self-esteem and the extensive preparation I’d invested over two years. I yearned to prove myself to him, or at least be acknowledged. Insecurity took hold of me deeply. The conversation turned tense in that room, then competitive. Over time, our connection evolved into a battlefield.
Without a script, he had one, and he didn’t want me to see him without a script. This complicates our performances or staging this production. He joined late due to Pacino leaving the project. The entire setup was tailored for Pacino. So, I felt quite upset. When he arrived, I was homeless, taking steroids, and not in good condition.
He didn’t have the script memorized while I did, which made it challenging to work together or stage the production. He joined late because Pacino dropped out, and the entire setup was designed with Pacino in mind. This left me feeling disappointed. When he finally arrived, I was homeless, taking steroids, and not doing well.
You were living in a park?
User Sure thing. I was taking a snooze in Central Park. They have horse stables near a small fire pit area there. There’s plenty of space nearby where you can unwind. You need to shift positions every three or four hours, but you can spend the majority of your time there. The staff member will check on you periodically.
And then you’d show up for rehearsal, having slept in Central Park?
LABEOUF For most of the prep.
Wow.
Indeed. After that, Alec commenced instructing at NYU – a course centered around acting, which coincided with my rehearsals with him. Initially, I was puzzled, thinking, “How can this be when you’re still memorizing your lines?” Eventually, I enrolled in his class myself. It became quite intense. However, Alec and I have maintained a strong bond because we’ve both faced numerous challenges. We’ve both endured hardships. We’ve been able to offer each other support and rectify any misunderstandings before the turbulence set in on either side. We managed to reconcile. He’s a good man. In many ways, he’s like me. Fear can cause one to act differently. I discovered it stemmed from lacking a spiritual connection.
MAMET That’ll do it.
LABEOUF It made me a piece of shit. Not a nice guy.
And last we talked, you’d found Catholicism and you’d lived in the monastery. How’s that going?
The change in how we work is undeniable. Now, Alec and I wouldn’t face these issues anymore. However, at one point I was on an isolated island. Then, Timothée Chalamet stood up and declared something akin to, “I aspire to be exceptional.” I completely understand his sentiment. On him, it’s endearing. In my case, it wasn’t as charming. I hope you get the drift!
Let’s discuss Henry Johnson, David. I came across a really positive review that suggested it might be an older script you brought back to life. When exactly did you compose Henry Johnson?
At the tail end of the COVID pandemic, my friend Marja-Lewis Ryan, who has directed a few of my plays, asked me, “What are you up to?” I replied, “I’m just sitting here at home, nursing my wounds, feeling like I’ll never work again and no one wants to stage my plays.” She responded, “Well, let’s create something. Don’t you have any ideas?” So, I shared this play with her. She said, “Alright, we’re going to produce it. We’ll assemble it at the Electric Lodge in Venice.
At that point, I contacted Dave, as I was still grieving over the loss of Lee Harvey Oswald. I asked him, “Where are you headed?” as everyone seemed to be leaving the project. Later on, Evan phoned me and convinced me to join, since I had doubts about my ability to do it.
MAMET My son-in-law, Evan Jonigkeit.
Was it always a given that Evan would play Henry Johnson?
MAMET I wrote it for him.
You’ve worked together in productions such as Oleanna on stage and various films with your spouse, Rebecca Pidgeon. What draws you to collaborating with your close relatives in your professional life?
I had the chance to know Jim Gandolfini. We were planning a project named The Lake, which was a Chicago police tale. One day, over lunch, just about a week before his passing, he shared his thoughts: “The essence of a movie is that by the time you grasp how to create it, it’s already finished. You’ve wrapped up shooting it. However, with a TV show, you have a second family and are constantly evolving it.” Therefore, I’ve always preferred working with familiar faces – simply because why not?
Shia, what’s it like to speak David Mamet’s dialogue?
I’M EXTREMELY RELIEVED. It feels great knowing I won’t mess this up. I didn’t attend school or college, but I’ve been reading scripts since I was eight. He’s exceptional. I’m not particularly intellectual; I’m just a man who enjoys acting. I could be called an acting addict. There’s no one better for an actor like me. Acting doesn’t require as much effort because the writing is so good. That’s why you often hear actors stumble over “ums” and “ahs” – it’s due to poor scriptwriting.
MAMET You got to say the words. And sometimes it’s hard to say the words.
They attempt to confine him by labeling it as “dialogue reminiscent of Mamet” or something similar, but there is another style in films – this so-called New York-style mumblecore. It’s prevalent and ubiquitous. When you read a Mamet play, however, there’s no trace of it. You need to unlearn many things in order to fully appreciate it.
MAMET In a single attempt, I prefer to capture the scene. Each additional try consumes more time and energy. You’ll find yourself scrutinizing the footage until it becomes confusing. Few directors communicate. They often request, “Let’s try again.” The query is why? If you don’t understand the reasoning, the actor may simply think, “I should do something different this time, as he didn’t like the previous performance.
When I collaborated with Adam Driver, we were on the set of ‘Megalopolis’. Coppola was directing, and after Adam would complete a take, he’d step aside to review the playback on the monitor. That’s his approach, but essentially, it shows a lack of trust. I used to behave in the same manner.
“Wow, I felt like my portrayal in Megalopolis was something extraordinary! Can you share some insights about Coppola’s guidance for that particular role?”
Coppola firmly believes that he is actually Dave or the theater director, but this isn’t true. He thinks of himself as an assistant to actors, but he’s not in that role either. However, this doesn’t mean he’s not extraordinary; it’s just that his greatness lies elsewhere. Providing direct guidance to actors may not be beneficial to them.
He gave you a lot of direction?
The person was extremely detailed, but the details were not clearly conveyed in his work. Therefore, I can’t discuss your dream with him. Working with Coppola was challenging because it seemed like we had to delve deep into his thoughts to understand what we were even discussing. His language wasn’t typical and often felt strange or outdated. This led to a lot of questions from my side, which required answers, but this process strained our relationship as I may have become too persistent and annoying.
Note: The original quote is by screenwriter Dan Futterman about working with Francis Ford Coppola.
And when you finally saw the finished product, was it what you thought you were making?
As a fan, I must admit, the film’s quirkiness exceeded my expectations. It was far more outlandish than I had initially imagined. Honestly, I didn’t foresee the movie being as offbeat as it turned out to be. Initially, I believed that my character would embody the eccentricity required for the film. However, I never anticipated that the entire narrative would be so unconventional.
There were moments when I watched Driver and thought, “Wow, that’s wild! Are we still playing the same character?” Aubrey Plaza seemed to be subtly hinting at an inside joke, as if she was aware of the film’s absurdity. That level of self-awareness wasn’t quite my style.
Initially, I was quite apprehensive when Coppola handed me something that didn’t resonate with me and made me uneasy. I had only one rehearsal before he looked at me, a glance that made me refrain from asking him any more questions about the character. However, Driver would bombard him with queries that seemed to drain Coppola. Driver required clarification too. By the time Coppola was ready to guide me, the atmosphere had shifted. I felt compelled to be respectful given the situation, but also desired to deliver a good performance.
David, you’ve never been a big fan of critics.
Indeed, I’ve encountered a few critics throughout my life whose insights were incredibly beneficial for me. However, for the most part, I stepped away from reading their work several decades back.
So when you mounted Henry Johnson in Venice, did you invite critics?
DAVE REFUSED. Dave declined. For about a week and a half, there was an internal issue between me and Evan, where no criticism was allowed. This was something I simply couldn’t accept, given my ego and the effort I’ve put in. I just couldn’t let it happen.
MAMET Because we were selling every ticket that we could.
Was there maybe a bit of fear there, that they wouldn’t like the piece?
ALTERNATIVE I really dislike them. As an old proverb goes, “To become a drama critic, one needs only to have less ability than necessary to discuss sports.
In a stealthy move, I sneaked up behind Dave without his notice and extended an invitation to a writer from the Los Angeles Times. I suggested, “Although Dave may not welcome you, put on a wig and come nonetheless. I’ll arrange a ticket for you at the entrance.” He followed my advice, arrived, and appreciated the event.
MAMET I just didn’t want to pay him the compliment of buying him a ticket.
Could you tell me a little more about the themes in your play? I recall that you penned it during the pandemic. What thoughts or experiences were you grappling with at that time?
As a gamer immersed in the world of creative storytelling, I’ve come to appreciate the power of art that dares to delve into the enigmatic and perplexing aspects of life. Unlike many plays that serve as platforms for social or political commentary, my focus lies in exploring the unexplained and the puzzling.
In my latest project, I’ve chosen to follow the journey of a character named Henry Johnson, who often finds himself entangled in situations where he unintentionally hurts others and is manipulated by those around him. Despite his best intentions, Henry seems to be both the perpetrator and the victim, a complex role that I find intriguing. I’m eager to see where this narrative leads and what revelations it might bring about along the way.
People are saying it’s a very timely film. Why?
They find it relevant or appropriate. Essentially, they’re saying, “Wow, this movie is now in sync with the current times. So, I suppose it’s timely.
People aren’t generally gullible or easily deceived, so there’s no need to worry about them being tricked or conned.
JANE Isn’t it true that the essence of the Bible is timeless? Someone once suggested that the Bible isn’t about events that occurred in the past, but rather about recurring experiences. That’s why the Bible remains relevant today.
I’ve seen Shia’s character compared to these toxic-masculine guru guys online.
YOU I’m not sure what “toxic masculinity” refers to. While I grasp the individual words, I’m unsure of its meaning. I think it might imply that I dislike males, but that interpretation seems incorrect. Instead, it likely means certain harmful or detrimental behaviors and attitudes associated with traditional masculinity. It’s not about disliking men; rather, it’s about recognizing and rejecting these problematic aspects.
Shia, what’s your take on your character? Is Gene a master manipulator or something less sinister?
PARAPHRASE I’d rather not end up in prison. It’s common sense that nobody desires a 30-year sentence. If there were any means of escape, I’d certainly pursue it. There’s no need for extensive research to arrive at such a conclusion. Furthermore, I didn’t want to portray myself as a tough guy because my past baggage was already with me. I knew from the get-go that there would be preconceived notions about me being a cruel animal abuser and monster. So, how can I create art under those circumstances? Well, I don’t need to exaggerate or rely heavily on these stereotypes. I just need to memorize my lines and grasp the rhythm of this narrative. How does such a story even reach your desk? Aren’t we supposed to be excluded from this conversation? This is for The Hollywood Reporter, isn’t it?
Yeah.
It seems that as of late, I’m under the impression that it’s not permissible for you all to pen articles about me, correct?
Why not?
Since we’re on some sort of blacklists, for example, I was planning to appear on Jimmy Kimmel’s show to publicize this project. However, Jimmy Kimmel’s program is owned by ABC, and they refused to allow an interview with Shia. As a result, Jimmy had to contact me and inform me that I couldn’t appear on the show. Therefore, it seems that The Hollywood Reporter operates in a similar corporate manner; if you have a story you’re interested in, you need to seek permission beforehand, don’t you?
We’re a news outlet. We get more leeway.
LABEOUF I guess it’s understandable that any mainstream corporate media might find issues with conducting an interview with me, given the circumstances. It seems quite unusual, doesn’t it? Could it be due to my extended stay in that place?
I have to admit, I’m not sure. But since I wanted to talk with you, I guess I am interviewing you. By any chance, could you tell me your thoughts on what you said a couple of times today about being a narcissist? Do you genuinely believe that about yourself?
In this profession, there’s a particular amount of self-centeredness – a kind of self-absorbed illness that propels one into acting. Now, I am attempting to understand what a balanced and wholesome manifestation of that is.
MAMET Yeah, but what’s wrong with that?
LABEOUF It just is what it is.
In a conversation with a trusted medical colleague, the topic turned to surgery. He posed the question, “What do you believe drives a surgeon most deeply?” I suggested, “Is it the desire to save lives?” He corrected me, “No.” “Perhaps then, a pursuit of mastery in their craft?” He countered, “No. What truly moves a surgeon is their enjoyment of performing operations.” Reflecting on this, I can’t help but agree. There’s a certain satisfaction in the act of opening up a patient and for me, there’s a similar appeal to standing before an audience and testing my own limits.
Shia, are you still in touch with Mel Gibson?
Yep, you’re spot on. A lot of admiration and affection for him. He’s always been kind to me, even during my toughest moments. He stood by my side when I was at my lowest. He truly went above and beyond for me. Alongside Sean Penn and James Brolin, he played a crucial role in helping me overcome addiction. They were there for me, supporting me and keeping me going. Sean even inspired me to write this play. I was incredibly nervous when I first started this project. But Sean was there in the very beginning, and other men I respected began showing up as well. I had never experienced such love before – it was a feeling like no other.
Do you feel like this part could be a sort of gateway to rehabilitation for you?
I truly hope so, as it’s my deepest desire. I aspire for my life to be dedicated to this pursuit. I aim to spend the rest of my days rectifying matters and striving for accuracy. There are many aspects that require my attention, but I am grateful that I can continue practicing my craft at a high level. It feels like an extraordinary blessing, almost unbelievable. It’s all interconnected – it’s either God’s everything or nothing. This is something I firmly believe in, and I often share profound spiritual discussions with Dave. We’ve both delved deeply into our respective faiths.
MAMET You can’t rely on your thoughts entirely. Your mind is like a cunning snake in the garden. It can be malevolent and needs to be managed. How do you manage it? We strive to act virtuously, but we also commit wrongdoings. So, in the morning, I reach for a cup of tea, with the Torah sitting nearby. And I think to myself, “I really should read the Torah.”
replacing “can’t” with “can’t rely on,” changing “the mind is evil” to “it can be malevolent,” and altering “We try to do good. We do evil” to “We strive to act virtuously, but we also commit wrongdoings.” Additionally, I’ve used “with the Torah sitting nearby” instead of “over there,” which might sound more conversational and familiar to readers.
It’s an unconventional approach you’ve taken with the movie release. When you brought up Louis C.K. earlier, he was the first person who came to mind. You remember, he used to sell his stand-up specials on his website, for just $5 each.
Or, in a shorter version:
Your film release strategy is unconventional; it reminded me of Louis C.K., who used to sell his stand-up specials online for $5 each.
He played a key part in this event happening. I asked him what the secret was, and he said there isn’t one. He told me he would call someone to help us with everything online. With his assistance and Evan who can figure out anything, we understood.)
The film industry, much like radio drama in its time, has been overshadowed by advancements in technology – specifically, the internet. It’s no longer the vibrant, innovative sector it once was because it’s become too reliant on outdated practices and big budget productions, such as spending $250 million on a new version of “Snow White,” which few people seemed interested in watching. This is due to the fact that decisions are often being made by an industry with deep pockets, who continue to produce content despite its questionable relevance or financial strain on itself. In essence, the film industry, much like the Biden administration, persists in its actions, even though they seem illogical and financially detrimental.
In 1975, I was experiencing the peak of my life, performing in what was arguably the top theater production in the English-speaking world, all happening in a garage in Chicago. Now, we’re aiming to recreate that experience. It might bring in profits or it might not, but you’re living your life without needing approval from 8,500 people named Jason, residing in the Valley over here.
David, after you backed Trump during his re-election campaign, you faced a lot of criticism. What are your thoughts on how his second term is progressing now?
As a devoted admirer, I must say, there’s something truly captivating about him. I’m edging towards my 80s, and I’ve grown weary of watching my beloved country decline. And then came Trump, but it’s not just Trump. It’s the 53% of American populace who expressed a shared sentiment: “We’re the middle class, tired of fading away. We yearn for our nation back.”
Now, will this man make errors? Of course, he will. After all, even a great general like Grant, who won the Civil War for the North, encountered corruption within his administration. His term was marked by the most unscrupulous leadership until Biden’s presidency.
It’s great to see our nation functioning again. Instead of debating personal issues like whether gay individuals are superior to trans individuals or if white people are superior to Black people, it’s important to focus on the true essence of the Constitution – understanding the law and who has the right to do what to whom. Disagreements about political viewpoints are a key aspect of our democracy that actually brings us together. In fact, when everyone thinks alike, we risk slipping into a dictatorship, which is something we narrowly avoided.
Shia, the last word is yours. Your work here is truly exceptional, even if we’re aware of the difficulties often encountered in such recognition. However, just for the sake of imagination, suppose this happened. How would a nomination impact you?
I don’t really need that. I feel like a child on a magical journey. Dave is my inspiration. That’s the perfect conclusion. It seems like a dream come true, but I don’t think I truly deserve it. And it’s incredibly awesome. Yes, indeed. Wow, amazing!
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2025-05-08 16:57