“Animation Is the Most Timeless Kind of Storytelling”: ‘Moana 2’, ‘The Wild Robot’ and the Animation Roundtable

“Animation Is the Most Timeless Kind of Storytelling”: ‘Moana 2’, ‘The Wild Robot’ and the Animation Roundtable

As a seasoned animation enthusiast with years of experience under my belt, I must say that the current state of animation is nothing short of inspiring. The diverse range of stories, styles, and techniques being employed by today’s animators is truly a testament to the resilience and creativity of our community.

In a world that’s growing more divided, intricate, and unsettling by the day, animated films remain one of our precious sanctuaries where collective happiness is pure and simple. The distinctions between conservative and liberal, progressive and traditional, enlightened and disdained dissolve when we unite in a cinema to enjoy tales of personal feelings turned into clever cartoons, to witness the escapades of mythical deities and intelligent robots (or wise garden gnomes), to reflect on the wonders of practical creativity using toys meant for children.

The THR event welcomed the directors of this year’s award-season sensations in animated films – Josh Cooley, director of “Transformers One” from Paramount; Kelsey Mann, director of Pixar’s “Inside Out 2”, known as the highest-grossing animated film ever; Dana Ledoux Miller, one of the directors for Disney’s “Moana 2” along with David Derrick and Jason Hand; Morgan Neville, who directed the Lego-animated documentary “Piece by Piece” about Pharrell Williams’ life for Focus Features; Nick Park, co-director (with Merlin Crossingham) of Netflix’s claymation film “Wallace & Gromit: Vengeance Most Fowl”; and Chris Sanders, director of Universal Pictures’ “The Wild Robot”. They were asked to discuss their personal motivations, technical hurdles (such as filming the first Lego drug deal), and why they believe that animation’s future remains promising, despite potential AI threats.

Perhaps we can start by discussing your journey into falling in love with films. Can you share the movie that sparked your desire to pursue a career as a filmmaker?

CHRIS SANDERS To put it simply, there’s animated movies and then there are movies that truly deserve the title of ‘film’. If I were to pick one such film, it would be “[1963’s] It’s a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World”. What an incredible piece! From the stunts with planes passing through billboards, to the entire airplane scene with Mickey Rooney. Wow! I recently rewatched that movie. I usually watch it once every year. Yes, that’s what I call a classic film.

As for myself, undeniably the movie that left an indelible mark is the 1977 release, “Star Wars”. If I were to pinpoint a memory that stands out as core, it would undoubtedly be from “Star Wars”, as I watched it when I was just five years old. It might well be one of my earliest recollections.

MORGAN NEVILLE My very first experience of watching a film was the 1971 release of Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. It left quite an impression on me. At that moment, I wasn’t considering a career in filmmaking, but it’s amusing to note that I mentioned this movie and even made references to it in the latest film I produced. So, in a way, it feels like things have come full circle for me regarding this classic movie.

DANA LEDOUX MILLER One of my earliest memories that influenced my perspective on storytelling significantly is watching The Princess Bride from 1987. It was such an enjoyable and thrilling experience that sparked my interest in movies at a young age. Additionally, I can’t forget about The Little Mermaid from 1992, which I grew up with, along with Aladdin (1993) and The Lion King (1994). Those Disney films were particularly impactful during my childhood, as I recall watching them in theaters and dreaming of being a part of those captivating stories.

The movie that sparked my desire to become a filmmaker was “Who Framed Roger Rabbit” from 1988. I simply adored this film; it resonated deeply with me at the right moment. However, my earliest theater memory goes back to watching “E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial” in 1982. That experience is etched in my mind because it was the first time I experienced an emotional response from a movie screen. As I glanced over at my father, I recall seeing him shed tears for what felt like the first – and perhaps only – time.

NICK PARK As a youngster, I started experimenting with stop-motion animation on my own using 8mm films. Then, around 1963, I watched Jason and the Argonauts, which featured visual effects by Ray Harryhausen. The way he brought those creatures to life, especially the skeleton fight, left me speechless. There’s a particular scene in Argonauts where Talos’ statue head is animated and comes to life with a simple “Errr” sound. This seemingly small moment gave me goosebumps. I incorporated this idea into the gnomes for the latest movie.

Chris, with The Wild Robot, what was the core idea at the center of that story that spoke to you?

SANDERS In the book The Wild Robot, written by Peter Brown in 2016, the story revolves around a robot that finds itself lost. As a robot enthusiast, I found this concept delightful, especially since the robot was unaware of its own predicament. However, what truly captivated me was the maternal narrative, voiced by Lupita Nyong’o. It’s not often I get to work on projects with such themes. The heart of The Wild Robot lay in its exploration of a mother figure, which presented an intriguing and captivating challenge for me.

“Animation Is the Most Timeless Kind of Storytelling”: ‘Moana 2’, ‘The Wild Robot’ and the Animation Roundtable

Josh, was it robots that drove you to Transformers One?

COOLEY The unique aspect of this Transformers film was its exclusive setting on Cybertron, devoid of any human presence. This allowed for a direct portrayal of characters reminiscent of those from my childhood. Moreover, the storyline focused on the evolving relationship between the two primary characters, transitioning from friendship to enmity. I found this straightforward concept captivating. This theme echoes numerous classic films, such as the 1960’s Spartacus and the 1956 Ten Commandments. If given the chance to create a sci-fi film on another planet, I wanted to combine it with an epic narrative yet deeply rooted in human emotions and relationships. Thus, I seized the opportunity to bring this story to life.

LEDOUX MILLER Is it okay if I just express my gratitude? My children adored your film. In fact, I had to craft Transformer costumes for Halloween this year. These ones actually transform. They were a huge success, though I must admit, I’ve never worked as hard as I did in all my life!

COOLEY I want to see that. You’ve got to share that. That’s awesome.

“Animation Is the Most Timeless Kind of Storytelling”: ‘Moana 2’, ‘The Wild Robot’ and the Animation Roundtable

Hello there! In the realm of storytelling, Moana 2 marks your debut as a director. What were the elements you wanted to preserve from the original tale, and which aspects did you wish to broaden or reinvent for this new journey?

Ledoux Miller shared a profound impact the first Moana film had on them. For one, it marked the debut of a Disney princess like Moana, who resonated deeply because they are Samoan and this was their first Polynesian leading character. Additionally, she was a strong female protagonist. As they watched the movie, they felt Moana would open doors for how they presented themselves and pitched stories. They never anticipated that they would be contributing to her story eight years later. Interestingly enough, Ledoux Miller also co-wrote the upcoming live-action adaptation of Moana, and they were involved in the sequel as well.

The initial movie significantly resonated with me as it portrayed a character discovering her roots and self-identity, which in many aspects, mirrored my own journey. For Moana 2, I contemplated the implications for a young female leader of her community; what would be the subsequent phase? While we didn’t aim to rewrite the entire storyline from the first film, our primary focus was on ensuring that she continued to evolve. We didn’t alter the fundamental essence of who she is, but rather broadened her character development.

“Animation Is the Most Timeless Kind of Storytelling”: ‘Moana 2’, ‘The Wild Robot’ and the Animation Roundtable

Hey Nick, I’ve heard you mention some hurdles during the production of Wallace & Gromit’s 2005 film, “The Curse of the Were-Rabbit.” Given that it was a distinctly British story within the studio system at DreamWorks. Have you encountered similar obstacles while making this latest movie with Netflix?

I, as a fan of the production, found it surprising how swiftly this movie was brought to life. It took only 15 months for filming – usually, our features take around 18 months. Honestly, I can’t recall any issues during the process. Perhaps my mind is still clouded by jet lag. However, the team at Netflix showed immense respect for the Wallace & Gromit legacy and its British charm. Working with DreamWorks was an enlightening experience, one that I enjoyed in numerous ways, but it wasn’t without its challenges. We were determined to preserve our unique roots while ensuring that the language and accents remained accessible to English-speaking audiences, thus avoiding the need for subtitles.

Morgan, it’s your debut with an animated film. Why choose to narrate Pharrell William’s tale through a Lego animation instead?

NEVILLE Reflecting on my films, I notice they often explore creativity and its journey. To me, creativity is like an individual’s unique superpower. Pharrell, being exceptionally creative in numerous ways, intrigued me because he’s had to navigate his creative impulses against a world that may label him as too unusual or conventional. Making the film in Lego wasn’t just about exploring creativity; it was also an opportunity to create something new, to invent a fresh type of movie. We constantly found ourselves grappling with the rules of what could be done in a film like this, trying to decipher its grammar. This process was not only enjoyable and thought-provoking but also mirrored Pharrell’s innovative spirit, as he is essentially a creative visionary. The initial concept for the film originated from him during our first conversation, making it feel natural and organic to him.

INQUIRER I’d like to ask how you managed to portray sound so vividly in your film, given that it’s striking and reminds me of Pharrell’s synesthesia where he perceives music as colors. If you hadn’t used Lego, how would you have represented the visual aspect of sound in your production?

NEVILLE It seems challenging to depict synesthesia, a condition where one perceives color with sound, in a documentary. However, animation offers an organic approach to this concept. The representation of beats and colors in our film accurately reflects the colors Pharrell visualizes when he hears sounds. Essentially, I asked him what each beat looked like and what colors corresponded to specific sounds, which he provided.

Kelsey, directing “Inside Out 2” was your debut as an animated feature director. Before its release, Pete Docter, Pixar’s chief creative officer, stated that if it didn’t succeed, they might need to alter their entire approach at Pixar. What was it like carrying the responsibility of shaping the future of animation on your shoulders?

PARAPHRASED Pete Docter, who led the original production, was the one who initially approached me with the opportunity to direct. Initially, I felt an overwhelming sense of excitement and delight. Frankly, I never imagined I’d have the chance to helm a film, especially at Pixar. So when he proposed the idea, I was thrilled. However, as you correctly pointed out, the enormity of the task soon became apparent. Looking back now that the movie has been released, I can see that I was indeed experiencing joy but also a great deal of apprehension throughout this project. This struggle between my joy and anxiety is essentially the narrative arc of the film itself.

“Animation Is the Most Timeless Kind of Storytelling”: ‘Moana 2’, ‘The Wild Robot’ and the Animation Roundtable

Hey Josh, could you explain how you incorporated themes such as class awareness, misinformation, and civil liberties into a children’s movie like “Transformers: One”?

As a dedicated fan, I found myself pondering: what if the Transformers inhabited their own planet? This thought sparked a question about the nature of our own society. To make their world more relatable, I aimed to mirror societal structures as closely as possible, given its otherworldly nature. Orion Pax and D-16, being initially devoid of transforming abilities, naturally fell into a lower class within this society. The theme of classism emerged organically from the story’s development, and eventually, I introduced a leader who could shape this social hierarchy. I didn’t consciously decide to tackle specific themes; instead, they evolved from my perspective on this alien planet and its societal dynamics.

Are there certain issues that studios will just reject out of hand when it comes to animation?

Ledoux Miller shared that contrary to some assumptions, his original intention wasn’t to narrate a personal coming-of-age tale amidst changing times, but it eventually evolved into one. Fortunately, everyone at Disney was supportive of this creative direction. There was never a moment when anyone suggested that such a narrative couldn’t be part of a children’s story. When embarking on a Disney tale, everyone comprehended the task at hand, yet we always aimed to avoid talking down to our audience.

SANDERS I firmly believe that you can narrate any tale on any topic, even complex subjects. The key is being mindful of your delivery and ensuring that all parts of your audience are included in the narrative.

NEVILLE Due to the numerous practical issues we faced, we had many discussions. In our production of Piece by Piece, there was a significant debate regarding how much and what aspects of Black Lives Matter movement should be depicted. We also introduced what is likely the first Lego portrayal of a drug deal in cinema. Although we decided not to animate characters like Snoop Dogg smoking a Lego joint, we needed to find solutions for all these scenes that would be comprehensible for adults while still being suitable for children. The idea was that they could grasp it within a certain context, but they wouldn’t necessarily need to fully comprehend everything that was conveyed.

Chris’ and Nick’s movies both tackle the topic of artificial intelligence, a significant theme in animation. As stated by Jeffrey Katzenberg, generative AI may lead to the elimination of approximately 90% of animated jobs. What are your expectations and concerns regarding AI?

PARK As for me, I’m not particularly tech-savvy; my colleague Merlin Crossingham might have more insights on this. In the world of Wallace & Gromit, technology is depicted through humorous automated gnomes. It seems that technology often lends itself to humor due to the frequent mishaps it experiences. If there’s a message in the film, it revolves around our fascination with technology and whether it elevates or diminishes our humanity. We aim to avoid taking a black-and-white stance on this topic. Wallace is a character who embodies an excessive faith in technology, while Gromit symbolizes the human touch, which is a recurring theme in the film at its core. On a deeper level, the animation itself is handmade, reflecting this idea. Wallace is a flawed character, and his belief in technology mirrors our own tendency to believe that technology will bring us greater happiness. Of course, technology and AI have numerous benefits, and they continue to advance. My film serves as a reminder to stay vigilant and cautious. If there’s any message, it’s this: be wary, and don’t trust penguins [a nod to Wallace and Gromit’s antagonist, Feathers McGraw].

“Animation Is the Most Timeless Kind of Storytelling”: ‘Moana 2’, ‘The Wild Robot’ and the Animation Roundtable

USER I must admit, my knowledge about AI is limited, but what I do understand is that the quality of output we receive is directly proportional to the input we provide. If we keep feeding it the same repetitive content, it’ll challenge us to create more captivating and innovative movies. For instance, a film like Everything Everywhere All at Once from 2022 or even Longlegs this year – these are pieces that showcase such novelty and originality that I’m confident they couldn’t have been produced by a machine. After all, it’s the human touch that brings forth the extraordinary.

In many beloved films, magic happens through unexpected moments, often born from two creative minds collaborating closely. For us, there’s Mini Maui – a unique character, hand-drawn in computer-generated imagery. This complex process yields results because we’re in a room together, tweaking details like whether it should be one frame higher or lower. And voila! We discover humor that wasn’t there before.

PARK Will AI ever understand irony and absurdity?

NEVILLE I was talking to a composer friend of mine who was showing me these new AI apps. And he said, “This is probably going to erase 50 percent of composer work.” I think what we’re all talking about, which is about making real handcrafted art, is absolutely of value. I worry more about the taste of people and if people are going to care about the difference? I think if you just want to go home at the end of the day and have AI generate a new episode of Golden Girls for you or something, that might be fine, even if it’s just mediocre.

MANN It’s clear that some individuals will continue to seek items produced by AI, but there will be a significant number who prefer the opposite. Nick, one of my favorite aspects of your film is the human touch it possesses – the evident fingerprints in the clay. I admire this quality greatly. And I believe many others will too.

SANDERS The concept of AI emerged during the final stages of creating The Wild Robot. At that time, AI didn’t exist when the book was penned, but advancements in digital technology enabled us to reintroduce human involvement. In our instance, all backgrounds were meticulously hand-painted by people, similar to how it was done for The Lion King and [2002’s] Lilo & Stitch. We haven’t had this approach for a considerable period of time – essentially, decades. The public has shown such warmth towards the film’s atmosphere, and I believe this is primarily due to the immense amount of human touch evident in every background. You can truly sense it. This filled me with optimism about the preservation of the human aspect in these projects.

“Animation Is the Most Timeless Kind of Storytelling”: ‘Moana 2’, ‘The Wild Robot’ and the Animation Roundtable

Hey Morgan, I noticed a unique touch in your animated work – it appears as if a documentary aesthetic was incorporated, complete with what seems like aged VHS-style footage. Could you share the secret behind achieving this vintage look within Lego animations?

NEVILLE In documentaries, we use old footage and switch between various screen formats. I aimed to preserve this effect. To achieve that, we conducted numerous tests to recreate the archival appearance. There are many software tools for this purpose, but in the end, what we found most effective was a simple method: we exported our 4K shots to VHS tapes, then reimported them into the film. The footage actually resided on these tapes before being used again, as it gave a more authentic archival look than any digital plug-in could manage. I desired a vintage, analog feel for the production.

LEDOUX MILLER That’s awesome.

NEVILLE Creating animations in a Lego-like style comes with an instruction manual. It provides guidelines for what you can construct using readily available Lego pieces in your film. However, the main constraint is that every element in the movie must be buildable with currently available items. In our project, we particularly challenged Lego to expand their options regarding skin tones and hairstyles. Initially, there was only one color for dark skin, but we eventually developed seven distinct shades. We proposed a braid design, but they raised concerns about it potentially breaking off and posing a choking hazard for children. After collaboration with their team, we managed to create these hairstyles, some of which are now being manufactured by Lego, which is fantastic! Furthermore, the newly developed skin tones are also being produced by Lego now.

Could you share something from recent animations that excites you about the future development of this artistic field?

John This year has been absolutely fantastic! There are so many amazing animated films currently showing in cinemas, and they’ve been performing exceptionally well at the box office. It seems like it’s drawing people back to theaters. Just take a look around you, see all these folks here representing the movies that are present, and witness every individual representing their film. It’s an extraordinary era for animation.

LEDOUX MILLER The central theme of our movie revolves around self-development, yet it ultimately emphasizes unity. Just like Moana ventures across the sea in search of others, she understands that a stronger community paves the way for a brighter tomorrow. In these challenging times, the notion of unity and discovering individuals who lead distinct lives, yet share common ground, resonates deeply. It seems that this sense of connection is particularly relevant now. People crave amusement, humor, and emotional experiences. I believe this indicates a promising future for animation.

NEVILLE Recently, I watched the film “Piece by Piece“. Although it’s not necessary to delve too deeply into current events, the screening took on a new significance following the Trump election. People expressed their feelings about it in various ways, saying things like, “It was exactly what I needed, a chance to ponder human potential, creativity, and the joy of living.” The films created here are truly remarkable, each one touching upon aspects of the human spirit in a positive manner. I firmly believe that animation is the most enduring form of storytelling, far surpassing documentaries. In today’s world, being able to produce such films that resonate with people beyond ourselves and convey messages of human worth is incredibly valuable. I believe these films all achieve this goal. Therefore, I admire the work being done at present.

SANDERS I completely concur without adding to the chorus. This year seems particularly notable as animation has been at the forefront, providing both entertainment and comfort. Crafting an animated film is a deeply personal process that requires immense effort. However, the results are undeniably timeless; they age gracefully like no other medium.

Nick, Wallace seems to have an ageless quality about him, still donning his classic sweater vest. What direction would you like to see the world of animation progress towards in the future?

PARK I believe there’s enough space for everyone here. I completely agree with the points made by everyone. If only I could jot down more of these insights! It’s been incredibly enlightening to hear everyone’s perspectives today. Although we may approach things differently, that diversity is wonderful.

Originally published in a special December edition of The Hollywood Reporter magazine, you can access this issue by clicking here to subscribe.

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2024-12-03 17:26