As a fan of both Breaking Bad and House of the Dragon, I must say it’s truly fascinating to see Melissa Bernstein, who played a pivotal role in one of the most iconic TV shows ever made, now directing episodes for another epic saga. Her journey from casting director to director is inspiring, much like how a humble blacksmith became the King’s Hand in Westeros!
You’ll be hard-pressed to find a more impressive TV resumé than Melissa Bernstein’s since 2008.
In 2007, the four-time Emmy-winning producer collaborated closely with Vince Gilligan to launch the pilot of ‘Breaking Bad.’ Alongside Mark Johnson and Gran Via Productions, they transformed the unusual crime drama about a high school chemistry teacher turned meth kingpin into a powerful empire. After the immense success of ‘Breaking Bad,’ led by Bryan Cranston, the team, including Gilligan, Bernstein, Peter Gould, and other creative minds, spun off the series into the critically-acclaimed prequel ‘Better Call Saul,’ starring Bob Odenkirk. Later in 2019, they released the well-received sequel film ‘El Camino,’ which followed Aaron Paul’s character, Jesse Pinkman, on his journey to gain independence.
During that timeframe, I was instrumental in guiding several critically acclaimed series such as Rectify, Halt and Catch Fire, and In Treatment’s fourth season. The latter signified a major shift for me, as I shifted from being a producer at Johnson’s Gran Via, to signing a production deal with HBO – a move that transpired toward the end of Saul. Interestingly, Johnson discovered Gilligan during a screenwriting contest at the 1988 Virginia Film Festival.
Bernstein explained to The Hollywood Reporter that he chose to work independently because he discovered he had a firm opinion about the types of projects he wished to undertake. He also mentioned that he didn’t want to constrain Mark in his pursuits.
Due to her HBO agreement, Bernstein didn’t get a chance to work with Gilligan on his Apple TV+ series titled “Untitled” featuring Rhea Seehorn (from Saul). Instead, Bernstein chose to go to the land of Westeros, becoming part of the Game of Thrones spinoff called House of the Dragon. This show, like Saul, is considered one of the top prequels. Despite its fantastical elements involving dragons, while working with showrunner Ryan Condal, Bernstein frequently reminded herself of the principles she had followed during her time with Gilligan.
Regardless of whether dragons exist or if you’re living in the high middle ages, Bernstein emphasizes that the story is essentially about human nature. His aim was to ensure that each scene, character development, and plotline felt authentic to our human experiences on Earth. In his opinion, this authenticity is what truly makes a tale compelling.
In a recent chat with THR, Bernstein discusses where HOTD is going in its season two finale and hints at a possible comeback within the Breaking Bad universe.
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After spending a significant amount of time with Mark Johnson and Gran Via, as well as collaborating with Vince Gilligan since around 2006 or 2007, you decided to venture off independently following the conclusion of the Saul series in 2022. What factors contributed to this being the ideal moment for you to embark on your own path?
Instead of waiting for “Saul” to finish, I departed from Mark and Gran Via earlier on. Time tends to blur, and I can’t precisely recall the moment, but it was before the show concluded. For over a decade, Mark and I had collaborated, and I hold him in high regard both personally and professionally. We continue to converse frequently and share ambitions of working together again. However, I chose to embark on my own journey because I identified a strong perspective regarding the projects I wished to undertake. Frankly, I didn’t want to constrain Mark’s options. Although he was understanding, I believe he would have allowed me to make those decisions, yet Gran Via was his company, and I felt he should have the freedom to decide on the projects he wanted to pursue. Moreover, I am not interested in high-volume work; for me, it’s about connecting with meaningful stories, and I desired the liberty to choose which narratives and storytellers to collaborate with.
At some stage, did you need to inform Vince that you wouldn’t be participating in his new project on Apple TV+? That moment must have been quite emotional as he has played a significant role in your life for almost twenty years, isn’t that correct?
Indeed, it’s a given that whatever project Vince is involved in will be exceptional and one-of-a-kind. This creates a dilemma for me because I value him not only as a friend but also as a mentor, and I know he’s going to create something extraordinary. Personally, not being a part of it was challenging, not because I didn’t want to join his new show, but because I had an existing contract with HBO that I wanted to fulfill. Since Vince is making his show with Apple, the choice boiled down to honoring my commitment to HBO. It wasn’t that I didn’t want to work with Vince; I always look forward to working with him. However, it didn’t make the situation any less difficult. I hope for future opportunities to collaborate with Vince and the entire team, as the producers, cast, and crew on that show hold a special place in my heart.
For decades, I’ve heard tales about how the creators of Game of Thrones were big fans of Breaking Bad. They even brought on Michelle MacLaren and Michael Slovis, directors from Breaking Bad, to helm some episodes. In 2015, when Peter Dinklage won an Emmy over Jonathan Banks following Saul’s first season, he made sure to give a shout-out to Jonathan, as many thought it would be his year. Do you think there was a mutual appreciation between these shows during the 2010s?
I couldn’t help but admire the exceptional work of David Benioff and Dan Weiss on Game of Thrones and HBO in general. The series was unlike anything else, offering a unique and captivating experience that differed greatly from our work on Breaking Bad. Watching it left me astonished, and I couldn’t help but appreciate the brilliance of bringing Michelle and Michael into the project. It’s delightful to see artists like them collaborate across such diverse realms.
As a dedicated fan of both “Game of Thrones” and “Breaking Bad,” I have always been fascinated by the crossover between these two iconic shows. In my years spent working in the entertainment industry, I’ve had the opportunity to meet numerous actors from both productions, and I can confidently say that their downtime stories are nothing short of captivating. It’s not uncommon for me to hear tales of Game of Thrones actors catching up on “Breaking Bad” during breaks in filming, or vice versa. This shared appreciation for these groundbreaking shows just goes to show the power of great storytelling and the universal appeal it holds for even the busiest of industry professionals.
Could you possibly find a bigger contrast than a narrative about a scientist-turned-drug-trafficking kingpin? (Or alternatively, It’s hard to imagine a greater shift in professions than a science instructor becoming a meth dealer.)
That’s probably why they liked it. It was the polar opposite of what they were making at the time.
Exactly!
Were you asked to join the team on “Dragon” to assist in taking over Miguel Sapochnik’s role as executive producer, as well as to share directorial and co-showrunning responsibilities with him since he was moving on?
To clarify, Miguel and I are distinct entities, each with our own unique footwear, and I’m certainly not a replacement for him in any capacity. Additionally, I’m not the one helming the show’s direction.
You should be, based on your Saul episodes.
(Chuckles) Such generosity from you! Indeed, Ryan Condal possesses an array of talents, and I don’t believe my role was to step into his shoes. Once Ryan took over as the sole showrunner, I was there to back him up and the team. I may not be a fantasy maestro like George R.R. Martin or have an exhaustive knowledge of his extraordinary universe, but I do bring experience in creating good television and compelling storylines. My role was primarily to contribute to the narrative aspect of the show, ensuring we maintain focus on the story and its telling, all while making sure we fulfill the promise of those brilliantly penned scripts.
What was your first order of business on Dragon? How did you get your feet wet?
My journey began with delving into script reading, which I started in November [2022], long before our filming commenced (scheduled for spring 2023). At that time, all the scripts were already prepared. It was truly an awe-inspiring experience given the scope of the project. Working in Vince’s world wasn’t typically how things worked, and it was fascinating to join the team and grasp the entire season’s vision at once. From a narrative perspective, I joined with questions like, “What are the storylines for these characters this season? What are their paths leading to these destinations?”
As a fan, I embarked on the transatlantic journey alongside co-executive producer Trina E. Siopy, who joined me from Saul. Having her by my side, a familiar and trusted ally, seemed crucial during this significant career transition, offering invaluable support and understanding.
Certainly! It was nerve-wracking to step into a series, universe, and franchise I wasn’t familiar with. I had no idea about the workings of Game of Thrones, and having someone who shared my approach to storytelling, production, and filmmaking was crucial for me. Since House of the Dragon has two teams shooting simultaneously, we had five directors working on these eight episodes. This made it difficult for me to be present everywhere at once. However, when I worked with just one team, I felt that way too. But with double the teams, I felt much more comfortable knowing I had a partner. We could split tasks and ensure we stayed informed about everything happening in every part of the kingdom.
In a previous project, you’ve dealt with Visual Effects (VFX): Lalo’s trip to Germany, Chuck’s fire incident, the glass partition in the mailroom at HHM, which at one point, was Saul’s costliest VFX scene.
(Laughs) Yeah.
Wasn’t that small compared to the scale of battles between dragons. Did you find it difficult to adjust to such a fast-paced work environment at first?
As someone who has spent most of my career working on smaller, more contained projects, taking on this ongoing visual effects role for this show was a true learning experience and a thrill like no other. Coming from a background where I could plan out sequences months in advance, knowing exactly what was coming next, the constant, ever-evolving nature of this project has been a challenge that I’ve embraced wholeheartedly.
Could you tell me about your role in the events leading up to the midseason fight at Rook’s Rest? In what ways did you contribute to setting the stage for such a tremendous effort?
Essentially, I’m not sure if my efforts contributed much, but I want to highlight the remarkable director, Alan Taylor, who has a deep understanding of the “Game of Thrones” universe and is skilled at orchestrating grand battles such as this one. Ryan, who wrote that episode, shares an equal enthusiasm for such action sequences. Therefore, it was crucial to provide them ample time with the visual effects team, stunt team, and special effects team to brainstorm their vision and enhance the original script’s impact.
Alan worked closely with his storyboard artist, Jane [Wu], to create a distinctive sky battle scene. Simultaneously, they aimed to keep the ground action dynamic and ensure both battles seemed interconnected. This collaborative effort across the entire production team was vital in bringing such a project to life. My role is mainly about facilitating communication among team members regarding their requirements, ideas, worries, and potential issues that could derail progress. It’s also crucial to minimize risks and create an environment where the team can thrive and surpass expectations.
As a gamer, I’ve learned quite a bit from the Dragon, but I can’t help but bring my own insights from Bad and Saul, as well as many others. You mentioned before that it’s all about understanding the characters’ mental states and ensuring authentic human behavior, even from the background artists. Can you recall a particular instance where my Albuquerque experiences crept into my game development? I’d be curious to hear!
In essence, during discussions with Ryan Condal, Sarah Hess, and their team, I emphasized the importance of basing our storytelling on genuine human emotions and behaviors. We didn’t focus on specific gags or techniques from shows like “Breaking Bad.” Instead, we delved into the philosophical aspects of how people act in different situations: “What would you do if you were in this situation?” This approach helped ensure that our scenes, arcs, and storylines resonated with audiences as they reflected our shared human experiences. Whether we’re dealing with dragons or medieval times, at the heart of it all is human nature. That’s what I believe makes a story compelling and relatable.
As a long-time fan of Dragon, I’ve always found myself drawn to Team Black due to my personal preferences and experiences. However, during my conversations with fellow fans, I’ve noticed that some of them are quite passionate about Team Green. It seems like they have strong convictions that make them staunch defenders of the green team. So, it would be interesting to know if the majority of the people working on the show lean more towards Black or if there is a significant number of Green supporters within the team.
In season 2, viewers gain a deeper insight into the younger generation, which enhances their engagement with both sides. For instance, as we delve into Tom Glynn-Carney’s portrayal of King Aegon II, we empathize with his character, feeling his vulnerability and eagerness to succeed, but also recognizing the flaws from his upbringing. This complexity makes it less clear that Emma D’Arcy’s Rhaenyra must emerge victorious. The series unfolds like a Shakespearean family drama, giving us a sense of these characters’ backgrounds and motivations in well-crafted scenes. As we grasp the complexities of each character, it becomes harder to pick a side, making the storyline more intriguing and multi-dimensional.
Supporters of Saul will always remember the instance when, under your leadership, a branch of Los Pollos Hermanos was destroyed.
(Laughs) Me neither!
It appears that your sensibilities align with the nature of dragons. Ever consider trying your hand at directing an episode in the future?
As a gamer, I’ve learned that nothing is impossible in the realm of imagination. This season, I found myself immersed in the intriguing world of directing for a massive, visually stunning show. Initially, I thought managing such a complex production was beyond my reach, given the math and technical aspects involved. But as I delved deeper, I discovered that I was merely a learner, a student of this expansive universe.
In the episode “Salud” of Breaking Bad, Jesse Pinkman tried out for a Mexican cartel while cooking meth, and he was secretly being filmed during this process. This recording still exists somewhere, which implies that Heisenberg’s formula could potentially be obtained by someone if they discover the tape.
Ooh, I’m intrigued. This is an interesting trail to follow.
A movie titled “Speak No Evil” is set to release in September, and it’s generating a lot of buzz among fans of the show “Halt and Catch Fire”. This is because Mackenzie Davis and Scoot McNairy portray a married couple in this suspenseful vacation film. As someone who played a part in casting them as co-stars on “Halt”, does this new pairing make you feel uneasy at all?
As a gaming enthusiast, let me tell you, I’m genuinely hyped! The moment I caught a glimpse of the trailer, I was instantly hooked, eagerly anticipating these two talented actors joining forces once more. Scoot and Mackenzie, in my book, are simply exceptional performers. Their chemistry on screen is captivating, and I can’t help but yearn for any collaboration that brings this dynamic duo together. They’re not just brilliant actors; they’re remarkable human beings who consistently make inspired choices. So, the prospect of them sharing the screen again is nothing short of thrilling! I can barely contain my excitement for the release of their upcoming movie.
I wonder if they sat their Halt co-stars Lee Pace and Kerry Bishé down and broke the news gently.
(Laughs) Well, they’re the next pair. We’ve got to see those two in a movie.
Yes, an eye for an eye. Well, Melissa Bernstein, congrats on a successful trip to Westeros.
Thank you for your kind words and for this thought about Jesse’s formula [being on tape].
Having spent a significant part of my life immersed in the fascinating realms of science fiction, I can attest that the allure of the Gilliverse and Heisenverse never truly fades. Though we may be occupied with the mundane aspects of our daily lives, at some point, we are all inevitably drawn back to these captivating universes. Whether it’s through rereading a favorite book or diving into a new series, the call of these worlds is one that resonates deeply within us.
Yeah, absolutely. The pull is too strong.
When you build the perfect shared universe, you just can’t leave it untouched for too long.
I assure you, I will not.
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House of the Dragon’s season two finale airs next week on HBO.
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2024-07-31 18:56