If you’ve watched the 2019 indie hit, “Villains” directed by Dan Berk and Robert Olsen, then you might understand why the team behind “Novocaine” chose not to create another serious action film.
In 2019, the film featuring Maika Monroe and Bill Skarsgard, titled “Novocaine,” offered an unusual love story amidst comedy, suspense, and horror. The ex-NYU roommates understood that to make the best version of this movie, they needed to incorporate diverse tones to match its unique love narrative. Originally conceived by Lars Jacobson, the co-directors transformed a more conventional tone into a mix of action, comedy, and heartwarming elements to create harmony within the story.
In a reimagined setting, Jack Quaid embodies Nathan Caine, a bank assistant manager born with an unusual condition called Congenital Insensitivity to Pain (CIP). This unique circumstance has kept Nate’s life primarily confined beyond his professional sphere, until his long-time colleague and crush, Sherry (Amber Midthunder), takes the initiative. To add a tender touch to this action-packed film, directors Berk and Olsen have cleverly woven in a 25-minute romantic subplot, ensuring that viewers become emotionally attached as Nate strives to save Sherry when she is kidnapped by bank robbers at the climax of the first act.
As a dedicated gamer, I’ve got to confess, Berk and Olsen encountered some pushback on their decision-making. It’s no secret that today’s producers and executives are juggling a lot when it comes to catering to the short attention spans of gamers like me in this fast-paced era.
In conversation with The Hollywood Reporter, Olsen explained, “Occasionally, we’d hear suggestions like, ‘Let’s make this faster,’ but our response was usually, ‘You know, we need to rely on the viewers here. This isn’t a fast-paced movie streamed online.'” He went on to say that they aimed for a nostalgic feel, as action films from the past were known to take their time in developing characters, unlike modern ones which seem to fear losing audience attention.
Berk also holds the view that it’s an indication of how profoundly social media and streaming platforms have reshaped users’ cognitive processes.
It’s clear why this transition is occurring – consumption patterns have significantly shifted. TikTok is posing a challenge, and executives are growing concerned. However, when they suggest abandoning character development in favor of quick action, we don’t believe it will yield the desired results. Instead, it won’t help Hollywood regain market share.
2022 saw Maika Monroe confessing to THR about contemplating departure from the entertainment world. She had been tirelessly working on seven films, and some difficult encounters led her to question her life’s path. However, this all flipped around in 2018 when she encountered Berk and Olsen while filming Villains. Now, Monroe attributes these co-directors for reigniting her passion for her career. In fact, she’s currently experiencing a renewed energy that matches the momentum she gained following the success of The Guest and It Follows in 2014.
As a gamer, I can relate. In the heat of the game, we might not always catch every detail. But later, when the match is over, it’s those quiet moments when someone shares something meaningful that truly stands out. Hearing Maika say what she did was like receiving the highest praise possible.
This gaming world isn’t easy, and sometimes, it feels like a relentless challenge. You could be on top of the world one moment, then find yourself back at square one when your game flops. So, to have someone acknowledge that our gaming sessions are enjoyable and inclusive is incredibly validating. It reminds us that we’re not just playing games; we’re creating experiences that matter to others.
In their latest chat with THR, Berk and Olsen touch upon an unexpected implication that arises from Quaid’s confrontation with Simon, portrayed by Ray Nicholson.
***
What’s the backstory for your team-up that’s now birthed five films?
Robert Olsen and I became roommates by chance during our freshman year at NYU. It’s thanks to the Bursar’s office and some mysterious algorithm that we ended up together, shaping our lives as we know it today. We were close friends for a long time before we even thought about working together. After college, we teamed up with a few other friends to establish a small production company. We shot everything from short films, music videos, corporate videos, and New York Fashion Week events, if someone was willing to pay us to use a camera. Over time, we began writing scripts together and found modest success by selling a couple of them. Our ultimate goal was to direct, but no one trusts you with a movie until you’ve directed one before. So, we pooled our resources and produced our first film, Body, which served as our debut as feature directors. We’ve been thriving ever since.
DAN BERK: Our journey took us from working on the sequel of Jim Mickle’s Stake Land, titled The Stakelander, into a situation where we could produce our third film, Villains. This was a significant milestone for us as it was the first time our script was being used. The budget of $2.5 million felt like an endless amount of money to us at the time, and we had big-name actors such as Bill Skarsgard, Maika Monroe, Kyra Sedgwick, and Jeff Donovan on board. Making Villains was a truly exceptional experience for us. It premiered at South by, was bought by Gunpowder & Sky, had a small theatrical release that made a big impact on our career trajectory. The line of demarcation in our careers is pre-Villains and post-Villains, which also prompted our move to Los Angeles. Our agents advised us to relocate only when we had “heat.” We didn’t want to go to L.A. with our heads down, seeking work, so we waited until we felt we were warm enough to move out, and then Covid-19 happened a few months later, which was unfortunate. However, it led us to create Significant Other.
OLSEN: It became our very first studio job.
ALICE: During lockdown, we chose to write a script set entirely outdoors, initially intending to produce it on a small budget with actors already in quarantine together. The result was a fantastic script that our representatives encouraged us to showcase to the studios. At the time, Ashley Brucks was at Paramount Players, and she showed interest, so we were able to make the movie shortly after Covid-19. It was truly fortunate and an enjoyable experience to create it in such circumstances. The film was released in fall ’22, and we got involved with Novocaine at the beginning of ’23.
Did the two of you ever workshop a collective name à la Radio Silence or the Daniels?
BERK & OLSEN: (Laugh.)
BERK: We have never workshopped a directing name. I don’t think we could pull it off.
AS A FAN, I’D SAY: Each time the idea came up, we both felt it wasn’t in line with our unique flair. Honestly, attempting it without a hint of irony seemed improbable for us.
BERK It’s similar to us attempting to don hats such as the fedora or newsboy cap. It just doesn’t suit us. We’d feel like impostors. However, they can carry it off effortlessly. We are avid supporters of both those teams.
Assuming Novocaine was an open directing assignment, what do you think was the key to your pitch?
Lars Olsen found Jacobson’s screenplay to be exceptionally creative at its core, but the film’s tone was far from humorous; it was a gritty, serious action movie instead. We thought, “What a fantastic idea, but let’s inject more humor into it.” The character’s inability to feel pain seemed like a perfect source of comedic relief throughout the movie. Recognizing the need for a tonal shift, we essentially said, “This needs a significant overhaul; there should be a booby-trapped house and a torture scene where he must feign pain. Let’s have more fun with this.” Fortunately, the producers were receptive to our idea and allowed us to perform a comprehensive revision of the script. We fundamentally changed the tone and rewrote the latter half of it, transforming it into something truly captivating. Whenever we write, we imagine an actor in our minds, ensuring consistency in the dialogue’s voice. Since we were engrossed in The Boys at the time, we decided this character should embody Jack Quaid. We wrote the script with his unique style and then tirelessly pursued him as a potential leading actor. It appeared that he sensed how custom-fit the script was for him, and once he joined us, the project took off like a rocket. Therefore, we must extend our gratitude to our producers for their support in all of this.
In the series “The Boys,” Jack’s character seems remarkably calm in response to the shocking scenes he often witnesses. I wonder if this could be used to convey his high tolerance for pain instead?
Certainly!
BERK: Indeed, we recognized that the humor in this film stemmed from unexpectedly gruesome scenes that were met with no reaction, creating opportunities for hilarious contrast jokes. Jack is an exceptional comedian, excelling both physically and through his dialogue delivery. We observed similar skills on The Boys, so we knew we’d need him to bring those talents to bear again. The Boys demonstrated beyond doubt that he could handle the task perfectly.
Does the labeling of “Novocaine” as a superhero movie make you uncomfortable, given that Sherry (Amber Midthunder) playfully calls Nate a superhero?
USER It’s alright if someone describes the storyline as focusing on its unique aspect. The promotion leans more towards this than the film itself does. It gives an impression of it being purely entertaining due to his inability to feel pain, while the movie actually delves deeply into how this condition has led him to live a secluded lifestyle with few personal relationships. At the start of the movie, he’s extremely isolated. He’s not seen socializing at bars or intentionally hurting himself to make friends. To me, a superhero movie typically involves a character transforming into a vigilante and repeatedly taking action. This character uses his disability as a superpower to rescue the woman he loves. So, in a way, it can be considered a superhero movie, but this is more of a singular event for him. After the events of the movie, he won’t continue fighting crime. Therefore, if someone refers to it as a superhero film, we won’t object, but I wouldn’t want anyone to mistake it for Kick-Ass.
In the film Unbreakable, David Dunn (played by Bruce Willis) doesn’t bleed, eliminating the need for an R-rating. However, despite not feeling pain, he can still be injured and perish. So, was the R-rating necessary to fully convey this aspect? Not likely, as we aimed to create a unique experience with intense yet contextualized violence, softened by humor and heart. This approach seems to have a less disturbing impact on viewers than traditional “torture porn” films, making it more enjoyable to watch overall.
OLSEN If it weren’t for the humor and emotional depth, one might find themselves thinking, “I can’t bear to watch any longer; this character is being overly brutalized.
ALEX For the balance to be effective, it’s crucial to challenge conventional methods when depicting violence. Leaving out details like blood or visible bones could potentially weaken the portrayal.
Does Ray Nicholson’s character serve as a contrast to Jack’s, given their shared background in Hollywood elite? Were they previously acquainted before the production started?
OLSEN They’d only crossed paths a handful of times, but they weren’t close friends or acquaintances from some high-profile social circle. In fact, we didn’t realize Ray was a Nicholson until we saw his audition and were captivated by him. It wasn’t until the callback that we recognized who he was upon researching his background. However, they are both incredibly gifted in their own right and have a unique perspective on nepotism. They openly discuss the advantages they’ve had, which is refreshing compared to some others in their position. This openness has resonated with many, as evidenced by comments like, “Enjoyed the ‘nepo baby’ debate at the end of the film!
The initial connection between Nate and Sherry forms the backbone of the entire film. I believe it’s crucial to the story that viewers grow fond of them as a couple, or else the movie might not succeed. Was everyone involved in its production treating their relationship as the central element?
BERK Indeed, we employed similar expressions during our rehearsals with our team leaders and actors. The movie would lose its coherence if the audience doesn’t find it plausible that Nate would jeopardize his life for Sherry, given their brief 25-minute encounter. Therefore, we needed to establish a traditional setup where, during one chaotic night, Nate’s life undergoes a dramatic transformation from monochrome to vibrant hues, and he becomes determined to save the catalyst of this change at any cost. If our approach didn’t click, we were in trouble. A significant part of this isn’t just about what we scripted and how we guided the actors; it’s also about their natural affinity as performers. We initially met Jack and Amber individually, and while we knew they were both extremely charismatic, you never truly know until they interact on screen or share a meal. Our first dinner together in Cape Town was when Bobby and I exchanged glances and sighed in relief, for they were bantering, creating an atmosphere that mirrored Nate and Sherry’s interaction. Their chemistry was incredibly effortless.
So they didn’t read or interact together before they arrived in Cape Town?
For years, Dan Trachtenberg, who directed Amber in ‘Prey’ and Jack in ‘The Boys’ pilot, believed they would make a great team. When it was time to cast Amber, he arranged a meeting at Swingers Diner in L.A. They immediately clicked, and then traveled to South Africa together for the filming.
Going back to what you said regarding the 25-minute romantic comedy, it’s important to note that there isn’t always enough time for character development in such a short span.
OLSEN It’s true, keeping the first act as it is requires some effort. Few studios would allow making an action film with 25 minutes of romantic comedy before any action takes place. There were those who suggested tightening it up, asking if we could move things faster. Our response was always that faith in the audience is crucial here. This isn’t a streaming movie; instead, we aimed to create a nostalgic feel, as old-school action movies took their time introducing characters. They didn’t worry much about losing viewers’ attention back then. Today, writers often face pressure to start with a bang or end the movie at the beginning and then flashback to show how it unfolded. It was refreshing that our producers at Paramount, Infrared, and Safehouse supported us in this and trusted our vision. Many appreciate the part of the film where Nate and Sherry are established; if we had jumped right into action, their story might not have mattered as much to viewers.
Movies remain significant for generations since they captivate audiences by immersing them in the characters’ journeys. However, it’s challenging to engage viewers with a character’s story if they don’t care about that character. By starting your action sequence at minute 12, as many studios recommend, you risk making people indifferent when chaos ensues, leading to a forgettable movie. The movies we studied prior to production, such as Die Hard, Lethal Weapon, and Midnight Run, have endured because of their memorable characters. In Air Force One, the hijacking doesn’t occur until minute 25; in a modern production, you might be pressured to move it up to minute 12. But starting with the hijacking earlier could dilute the emotional impact that made those classic movies timeless.
OLSEN It’s acceptable for some action movies to focus on combat or spectacular stunts from the get-go because that’s what they’re all about or cater to audience expectations. However, our intention was to create a character-driven film, and developing characters effectively isn’t possible when the action kicks off within the first 10 minutes.
Audience members can endure waiting a bit longer due to the value it brings. Just as one wouldn’t rush through the gates of Jurassic Park in 45 minutes, it remains a film often ranked among the top four by viewers, even myself. We comprehend the reason behind this shift. Consumer habits have significantly evolved. Platforms like TikTok are gaining popularity, causing some anxiety among executives. However, when they suggest speeding up the action and neglecting character development, we believe it won’t produce the desired outcome. It’s unlikely to help Hollywood expand its market share. [Note from the Writer: The John Wick co-directors received a similar suggestion because the first fight scene doesn’t occur until the 30-minute mark.]
OLSEN It would be beneficial if you could set yourself apart more by moving beyond the brief, bite-sized content format.
In another phrase, how frequently would a fight scene need to be re-shot due to Jack unintentionally showing signs of discomfort or reaction, given that he cannot feel physical pain during fights?
It turned out that Jack’s hard work in retraining himself was seldom needed. This was amusing because he had other fight scenes lined up for The Boys and other films, and he worried that he had ruined his chances in future productions since he no longer looked like he was in pain. However, he put in a tremendous amount of effort during preparation, and if there were additional takes required, it was often him who asked for them. Jack is so aware of his performance process that he could notice when he winced slightly or breathed a bit too much. He’s exceptionally analytical about such aspects of acting, which led him to sometimes request extra takes. But it was uncommon for us to respond, “Hey, you’re wincing. What happened? You forgot.
Olsen explained that working with stunt coordinator Stanimir Stamatov involved learning how to disregard previous training habits. For instance, when getting hit, one naturally flinches, but in these scenes, Olsen’s facial expressions were different from his body movements. The film “Upgrade” served as a significant reference for some of the fight sequences due to its similar technique – Logan Marshall-Green’s character’s face appeared detached from his physical actions. While his body fought the opponent, his face seemed apologetic. This approach was used in some scenes with Olsen’s character, Nate, who didn’t react to punches in the same way a typical person would. However, it was important not to push this too far, or else it might appear as if he didn’t care like the T-1000 from the “Terminator” series. Instead, there were other emotions portrayed, such as concern about being in a fight, but without the usual pain responses. This required a great deal of effort to master.
Did Nate’s decision to steal the police Ford Taurus after Sherry was taken captive have any connection to RoboCop?
OLSEN That’s a recognition of the scarcity of left-hand drive vehicles in South Africa. The budget for action cars in this film was significantly higher than it would have been otherwise. Since only left-hand drive cars are driven there, they don’t magically appear, and because they drive on the opposite side of the road, we needed to acquire these specific models. Moreover, they even lack box ambulances, so a highly skilled team had to construct one that could operate. We then had to create another version of the ambulance for filming inside and mount it on a gimbal for movement. Consequently, the cars in this movie were quite troublesome, but fortunately, we managed to find solutions.
BERK So, yes, it was a RoboCop reference.
BERK & OLSEN: (Laugh.)
Was Jacob Batalon’s Wolverine line in the trailer only recorded for the trailer?
BERK: The dialogue wasn’t specifically requested by us, but rather added for the trailer. While we’re not particularly fond of adding dialogues during trailers, we recognize it can be crucial for effectively promoting an idea in a concise manner. It aligns well with the visuals and does address your earlier query. It subtly places your mind within the superhero realm, which isn’t our preferred genre.
We understand why they made that decision, but what surprises us is that when you watch the movie, it turns out that Roscoe’s character doesn’t really fit the description they gave him in the marketing. In the film, he actually doesn’t warn others to be careful and resists being involved in the story for a long time. However, promoting a movie is a whole different field of expertise, so we let the professionals handle it.
“Everybody Hurts” is very well utilized at the start of the film. Did R.E.M drive a hard bargain?
OLSEN Employing a large song in such a way inevitably carries a financial burden, yet Paramount proved exceptionally supportive throughout the project. During post-production, their faith in this film was unwavering. Additionally, it performed impressively well during testing, which prompted them to say, “Go ahead, include as many songs as you like now.” If our tests hadn’t fared well, I believe Dan and I would have been tasked with creating original tunes instead.
CLEANED UP VERSION Clearing the R.E.M song wasn’t problematic; it merely required payment. However, the torture scene with its intense violence proved to be a far more difficult choice in terms of selecting appropriate background music.
Since the audience isn’t familiar with the film, you need to share a specific scene. When they saw that character had his nails torn out, they refused to include their song, thinking it was absurd.
I Found myself growing increasingly anxious as the clock ticked down. We exhaustively explored 15 alternative choices, and some of these artists would take an entire week just to let us know if they’d agree to license the track. With the post-production deadline looming, we were at a loss, wondering, “What’s the backup plan? No music or original score? But that could undermine the comedic aspect of the scene.” It was a nerve-wracking experience, but fortunately, one of our initial picks came through. Although it took longer than expected for them to respond, Chicago’s “You’re the Inspiration” proved to be the perfect fit. We aimed to create a humorous contrast by pairing this heartfelt, big ballad-style song with extreme violence, and luckily, we managed to pull it off. However, they didn’t hesitate to remind us that this licensing fee would be steep due to the graphic nature of the imagery involved. That was the most costly license in the entire movie.
Did Maika Monroe share with you that she was considering leaving the entertainment business, but after working with you both on “Villains,” her perspective completely shifted? At the point when you were collaborating together, were you conscious that she was facing a crucial decision about her career?
OLSEN At the time, we didn’t realize it, but later on, she did tell us about it. It’s an incredible compliment for us, especially in this tough and unpredictable industry, where actors often struggle and face disappointments. Sometimes, a big-budget film can make you feel like you’ve made it, only for it to flop afterwards. There are so many factors that are beyond our control. That’s why we always work hard to create a positive atmosphere on set, making it more like a fun and enjoyable adult summer camp rather than a stressful workplace. Unfortunately, not all sets are created equal; when things go wrong, there can be difficult personalities at the top – be it the leading actor, producer, or director. When someone in those positions is tougher than necessary, it creates an uncomfortable environment where everyone tiptoes around, and the fun disappears. So, hearing Maika praise our efforts was a great validation. We strive to make our sets inclusive and welcoming places where ideas can be freely shared, and knowing that she felt rejuvenated there was indeed a big compliment.
I believe she enjoyed the change, too. Both Maika and Bill had an opportunity to showcase their exceptional comic talents.
OLSEN Screwball comedy.
BERK: Absolutely. Maika played a lively, cheerful role, which was a stark contrast to her usual “Longlegs” character. It’s always enjoyable to break away from the norm, and for her, who is often seen in darker horror films, it was a pleasant change of pace. She acknowledges this herself, given her extensive history in somber horror productions.
OLSEN Including one of our other movies, Significant Other.
BERK & OLSEN (Laugh.)
Olsen’s persona was noticeably more subdued, carrying an undercurrent of inner turmoil and complexity.
BERK The performance was still enjoyable. Just as Bobby stated, it was incredibly rewarding to hear her express that sentiment. Our bond with Maika is one of our most valued in Hollywood. We’ve collaborated on two films with her, and it’s not common for actors and filmmakers to work together more than once. Thus, her decision to make a second film with us speaks volumes about the trust we share, and we eagerly look forward to working with her again on another project.
OLSEN She’s an unbelievable actor who’s capable of anything.
Your support played a significant role in making the upcoming “It Follows” sequel, titled “They Follow,” a reality. It might not have been possible without the successful turnaround of “Villains” by Olsen.
BERK We should get 2 percent of the backend on that.
BERK & OLSEN (Laugh.)
Regarding the topic of villainous figures, I’ve always had faith that M. Night Shyamalan would triumph over his legal disputes regarding the TV series Servant, given the therapy doll in one of his movies. These dolls are quite prevalent, and indeed, he managed to come out on top. By any chance, have you both kept tabs on this court case?
ALICE I didn’t pay too much attention, but I was definitely keeping up with the events. The doll in “Villains” was made of ceramic and could break, so I suspected that our evidence might not be needed for the court case, but it would have been exciting if it were.
Due to the positive response to Novocaine, it seems likely that you’ll embark on a water bottle tour. If given the chance to choose, is there a particular IP (Intellectual Property) you’d like to collaborate with most? Or perhaps, are you interested in creating a sequel for Novocaine?
OLSON certainly looks forward to creating a follow-up for the film “Novocaine”. It’s an exciting prospect! Reuniting our talented team would be a treat. As for other intellectual properties, we don’t have any particular ones we’re eager to tackle just yet. Our dream, though, is to eventually produce big-screen blockbusters. An action-packed, globe-trotting adventure film appeals to us greatly, whether it takes inspiration from the style of “Indiana Jones” or “National Treasure”. That’s definitely a project we frequently discuss and aspire to make someday.
And here’s an interesting fact: “Novocaine” is currently playing in cinemas across the country!
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2025-03-14 00:26