As a seasoned storyteller who has navigated the ever-evolving landscape of television, it’s clear that Bill Lawrence has a knack for crafting compelling narratives with rich characters that evolve over time. His long-standing relationships with talented individuals in the industry have opened up numerous opportunities, such as his collaboration with Matt Tarses on Steve Carell’s upcoming HBO show.
[This story contains spoilers from the first two episodes of Shrinking season two.]
Following the announcement that Brett Goldstein was set to appear in season two of Shrinking, a show he also co-created with Bill Lawrence and Jason Segel, there was much curiosity about what character Goldstein might portray.
In the closing scenes of the initial episode from season two of “Shrinking,” titled “Jimmying,” we find an answer to a significant question that leaves both Segel’s character, Jimmy, the therapist dad, and his on-screen daughter, Alice (played by Lukita Maxwell), utterly astonished – in a way that could be described as profoundly surprising.
Goldstein assumes the crucial part as Louis, the man behind the wheel who tragically took the lives of Jimmy’s spouse, Tia – also known as Alice’s mother.
But Lawrence says that casting almost didn’t happen.
Lawrence said to The Hollywood Reporter, “In my mind, Brett was like Roy Kent. However, the actual Brett, beyond the backstory, is actually quite similar to this character. He’s a kind soul. He’s extremely sensitive, and for this show to succeed, we needed someone who could play a character that did despicable things but still made you root for them. I almost messed it up.” (paraphrased)
If Segel hadn’t proposed that Goldstein take on the role of Louis, it might not have materialized. However, once the star agreed, Lawrence noted that he could envision the character taking shape. Interestingly, the showrunner did impose one requirement for the Emmy-winning actor: He needed to shave clean.
Delving into the character who sparked the entire series’ journey, I can’t help but share my excitement for how he sets the stage for season two’s profound exploration of forgiveness. This theme will weave its way through the lives of Jimmy, Alice, Gaby (Jessica Williams), Paul (Harrison Ford), and Liz (Christa Miller) in unique and intriguing ways, as they each grapple with this complex emotion in their own journeys.
Additionally, Lawrence reveals that he draws upon his genuine marriage to Miller as a source of inspiration while crafting the scenes involving Alice and Jimmy, skillfully blending humor and emotion in Apple’s successful series. This reflects one method of rephrasing the original sentence for improved readability.
***
To begin, let’s focus on the introduction of Brett Goldstein’s character. When I discovered who he was going to portray, it took my breath away so suddenly that my companion in our apartment thought there might have been an emergency.
(Laughs) Good shit, right? I don’t think people see it coming.
Not at all. How did his casting in this role come to be?
Initially, when we proposed this series, we described each season as follows: the first year focuses on grief, the second year delves into forgiveness, and the third year is about progress. Therefore, we had a clear vision for the character’s arc from the start. We were fortunate that it resonated with audiences and was well-received, which allowed us to approach the next season with anticipation, thinking, “Which actor can bring this character to life in a way that requires no explanation, but is an obvious choice?
Having spent a long time in television, it’s quite flattering when the roles are offered to me instead of vice versa. However, I nearly missed an opportunity because I used to joke about this with my wife after The Drew Carey Show. People would often comment on her being a beer-drinking Midwestern gal, but she isn’t like that at all. To me, Brett was always like Roy Kent – he’s been a friend for a long time, a writer and comedian, but he came across as gruff and grumpy. In reality, Brett, despite the character background, is actually quite sweet and sensitive. This show required someone who could do despicable things yet still make you root for them. I almost messed it up because Brett wouldn’t be so bold to ask, but Jason Segel made it happen.
So you didn’t see him in the role at first. What changed?
Jason made me notice it, and once I did, I began to comprehend it better. Given my personal relationship with Brett, his acting abilities were simply extraordinary. Subsequently, the suggestion transformed in our writers’ gathering before I proposed it, evolving into “You really need to get rid of that beard and mustache, man.
It was weird seeing him without the facial hair.
I believe he didn’t care for it. Yet, I found myself saying, “That was the sole reason I couldn’t accept it. You look like a kid of 12,” which turned out to be true. The main challenge during production was that his hair grew back every nine minutes, requiring him to shave between scenes. (Laughs)
Following Brett’s portrayal of his character, Louis, in the therapist’s office, I thought Jimmy would relapse once more, and it appeared as though this was going to happen towards the end of episode one. However, in episode two, he seemed to be doing much better.
If I told you that this season is about forgiveness — and I’m not going to tell you whether he does or he doesn’t — what’s interesting about that is that forgiveness is a process. It’s our intent that the character Jimmy understands why that guy is there, and thinks he’s been firm and given enough reaction that that’s it, and that he won’t have to deal with that shit anymore and can keep hiding from it. A very simple tenant of therapy, not to get way too in the weeds, is that there’s no real moving forward until you kind of approach the topic of forgiveness. And it’s not always black and white, meaning that you have to forgive someone for something they did. A lot of times it’s forgiving yourself.
As a fan, I’d express it like this: This season seems to be all about forgiveness, and I believe the clues have been subtly planted for each character to grapple with this theme. What I love about our fans is their keen eye for detail – they might say, “Wow, Harrison Ford appears to harbor some lingering issues with his daughter,” or “Jimmy’s actions towards his own child haven’t been entirely commendable.” As the story unfolds, we also see Jessica Williams and her mother’s actress dealing with something significant. In essence, the season is gradually revealing its central theme.
Jimmy and Alice seem to be in a much better place in the first two episodes than they were in season one. What can you tell us about what comes next for them, and if you take any inspiration from your own interactions with your children when it comes to writing their exchanges?
I’d like to give credit where it’s due: this show has an outstanding writing team. If I were to claim that I excel at writing for Jessica Williams because I can capture the voice of a young, strong Black woman from Long Beach, you might question my statement. So, it’s important to acknowledge the collaborative efforts of our talented staff. Personally, I believe I contribute best by infusing authenticity into stories I am familiar with. My 24-year-old daughter, who grew up more quickly than expected, has been a significant influence in this regard. She didn’t have to endure massive trauma, but she was exposed to the world of music, which wasn’t part of my background; she left high school at 17 and experienced life beyond her years; she saw things and matured in ways that were inappropriate for a child. Now, we’re exploring this theme on our show: the sudden transformation from childhood to adulthood, where a young girl or boy becomes emotionally more mature than their parents in certain aspects.
As a seasoned gamer, I’ve got a lot of gaming hours under my belt, but what I want folks to grasp is that there’s still room for improvement in our gaming bond, despite the recent past. For those who recognize my gaming style, they’ll understand that, even though not every game will go smoothly, I hope they remain optimistic because I’m crafting stories about my personal experiences with my kids – daughter and sons.
How would you say Alice’s journey with forgiveness is going to be different from Jimmy’s?
Well, it’s three-fold. I’ll tell you three different stories that are coming down the pipe. One is we brought a catalyst character into the show that had a direct effect on Alice’s life and Jimmy’s life. And the amazing thing is, the reason clichés like “from the mouths of babes” exist, is that, what might be easier for one is a lot harder for another. So, I think their reactions to who Brett Goldstein plays will be very different, partially because for one, it’s a simple act of forgiveness. For Jimmy, it shines a spotlight on him as a father, and that dude is a walking embodiment, not only of the biggest trauma in his life, but if anybody remembers the first year and what we showed that happened, it’s also a massive spotlight on a father that did not come through for his kid, meaning himself. So it’s a lot more loaded. But I love exploring topics like this. Alice also will stumble through, as you see more episodes into the weird double line that you think you’re not necessarily accountable for your own behavior because of what you’ve gone through. So she’s mistreated some people that we’ve kind of set up, and people will see in these first six episodes, especially.
The show really does balance comedy and drama so well. How did you all find that middle ground?
I wouldn’t claim to have a brand or anything like that, but every writer is bound by their personal influences. Anyone who claims they aren’t influenced or referenced by something is probably not telling the truth. Growing up, I was drawn to comedies that also had emotional depth: shows such as M*A*S*H and The Wonder Years. In fact, I would go so far as to say that modern kids are enjoying The Office, and the character of Michael Scott might seem absurd at times, but his ability to switch from being comical to touching us emotionally in the end is a credit to the writers and Steve [Carrell]. Honestly, I’m a fan of such emotional rollercoasters.
Back in the days of Scrubs, we churned out numerous episodes, and there were definitely a few clunkers in the mix. Those were usually the ones where we didn’t strike the right balance, leaning too far into broad silliness only to abruptly switch gears and tug at heartstrings about life or death moments. Conversely, some episodes were overly dramatic, and then we’d throw in a whimsical fantasy or something of that nature. So, we’re very particular about it. I believe the key is maintaining authenticity when we delve into emotional scenes, avoiding the temptation to overload lighter, humorous moments with unnecessary heaviness. It may sound silly, but we agonize over such details. Of course, we make mistakes from time to time, but we strive not to.
Beyond discussing the themes of forgiveness during this season, there are other significant matters that will unfold, such as Paul’s battle with Parkinson’s disease and Grace’s impending court case. Could you elaborate on how these events will play out throughout the season?
In the context of Grace (as defined by Heidi Gardner), we have a character who pushed her husband off a cliff. This act might be challenging for her to forgive herself, given the circumstances. This is the narrative’s underlying theme. The fact that Harrison Ford agreed to play a man dealing with Parkinson’s disease resonates deeply with Brett and me because of our personal connections to the condition. In creating the show, we appreciated Jason’s willingness to grasp this personal aspect: my grandfather, Brett’s father, and my dad all have Parkinson’s or Lewy bodies; I also worked with Michael J. Fox. The character Harrison Ford portrays seems to love his work but is conscious of the fact that he won’t be able to do it indefinitely. This awareness may echo his real-life feelings about acting, adding a profound and poignant layer to the story we are telling. It’s an exciting tale to share.
How does the humor of your wife Christa Miller’s character Liz seem to shine brighter in this current season? Could you share some insights on how you craft her dialogue, and if there are any unique aspects when penning lines for her versus other characters?
Initially, I underestimated the talent my wife possesses, as the rest of the writing team graciously guided me. Truth be told, she’s not just the funniest person I know on screen and off, but her humor leaves me in fits of laughter daily. However, I often overlook the fact that she’s an incredibly skilled actress too.
Has writing Shrinking changed your relationship with therapy?
It’s been quite an intriguing experience for me. I feel fortunate to have lived through this on “Scrubs,” as its unique narrative stands out. You might notice that I frequently revisit the show, but it’s not just because of nostalgia – it’s because “Scrubs” had a peculiar trajectory. Despite its widespread acclaim and success, there was initially skepticism about depicting doctors on TV, as Americans were accustomed to seeing them simply burst through doors shouting “Stat!” Instead, the show presented a more realistic portrayal of the medical world, with its drudgery, characters, and coping mechanisms resonating deeply with viewers. In fact, if you search for “the most realistic medical TV show” today, “Scrubs” is often among the top results, highlighting how authentically it captured the daily grind and emotional turmoil of the profession.
In our initial year with therapy, we expected to face numerous challenges. What’s intriguing is the warm reception from the therapeutic community – the therapists themselves – who understand this can be an addiction. They’ve been incredibly supportive. A humorous reaction we encountered in the first year was people saying, “Oh my goodness, if a therapist behaved like Jason Segel’s character, there should be repercussions.” To which we replied, “Yes, we know. But remember, his character is in a story, and in this tale, his patient might push someone off a cliff.
What I’ve come to understand about therapy is that this show may primarily aim to amuse, yet it seems to be effectively reducing the stigma surrounding individual therapy. The instant accessibility of feedback from viewers, particularly those who identify with closed-off characters like myself, is remarkable. It’s inspiring to see various characters discussing their feelings, emotions, and struggles openly. I believe this openness resonates with many in a way that has left us pleasantly surprised.
Are you drawn towards creating a three-season storyline, like what was initially planned for Shrinking and Ted Lasso, as your preferred approach in your long career?
It’s an intriguing query! I recently discussed this matter with my esteemed colleagues at Apple. If they continue with the current approach of Shrinking, I am absolutely on board. However, I believe that the narrative of Jason Segel’s character, Jimmy, dealing with the loss of his wife for six years, and still being affected by it after five years, seems to me like it’s time to explore a fresh tale.
Essentially, for me from a creative perspective, what stands out is that this new project feels distinct from the television shows I’ve worked on in the past, like ‘Spin City’, ‘Scrubs’, and ‘Cougar Town’. In those shows, our main objective was to produce 1,000 episodes where the characters remained consistent, often jokingly referred to as a never-changing formula. An interviewer once quipped to Zach Braff during the eighth or ninth season of ‘Scrubs’, “Has your character, JD, changed at all?” To which he humorously replied, “I think I have a beard now.” Beyond that, JD was essentially still the same odd man-boy. For me, what truly matters is crafting a compelling story and knowing its beginning, middle, and end. The characters in this new project, ‘Shrinking’, seem complex enough for me to envision additional stories with their own beginnings, middles, and ends.
In today’s streaming era, the way business is conducted has significantly evolved. Instead of approaching actors like Harrison Ford or Jessica Williams who have numerous opportunities, you can now easily propose a well-structured story idea such as a three-season arc with 10 to 12 episodes that has a clear beginning, middle, and end. This is quite different from the old days when creating network TV shows meant asking, “If you’re interested in this project, you’ll need to sign a contract indicating your commitment… essentially for an indefinite period.” This new approach allows for more character development, which is personally meaningful to me.
In our previous conversation, you shared that you’ve been friends with Brett for quite some time. It’s been announced that Apple TV+ has obtained options for Brett, Hannah Waddingham, and Jeremy Swift. Given your slight departure from Ted Lasso in season three, might there be a possibility for you to rejoin the cast if they decide to produce another season?
Regardless of how it might initially sound, rest assured that there’s no deception involved. You see, when it comes to Ted Lasso, people won’t be discussing it because it’s not just Jason Sudeikis portraying the character, but he is the voice and soul of the show itself. He’s the primary writer behind the scenes. It’s quite fascinating as the production was a real bonding experience, a close-knit family. To maintain everyone’s respect, no details about the cast or plot are disclosed until Jason himself is ready to share. Therefore, I graciously submit that I’m open to participating in whatever role the show’s leader deems fit for me.
It seems like you’ve mentioned ‘Scrubs’ quite frequently. Now, you’re joining forces with Matt Tarses again, this time on Steve Carrell’s HBO production. Details about the project are scarce at the moment. Can you share any insights or information about it?
The script for this project is quite amusing, at least to me, but I may be biased. One reason I’m able to take on a variety of projects currently is due to luck; I’ve been fortunate enough to collaborate with incredibly talented individuals such as writers, actors, actresses, producers, and directors throughout my career. The production designer for “Shrinking” has also worked on the first show I created, “Spin City,” which means we’ve been working together for 30 years – a fact that’s quite astonishing given my age of only 39. So, Neil Goldman and others help me with “Shrinking.” In general, I can do most shows because there are many other skilled people involved. For instance, the co-head writer for “Bad Monkey” was Matt Tarses, with whom I collaborated on that project.
***
New episodes of Shrinking drop Wednesdays on Apple TV+ until the finale on Dec. 25.
Read More
Sorry. No data so far.
2024-10-17 04:27